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why do we have so much emphasis around the world (even for non believers) on the word of a 2000 year old book. I stopped believing in fairy tales when i was about 5, so why do people revolve their lives around some old stories. it almost defies belief.
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If you read the old stories and reason with them without having an attitude towards them, you'll no doubt start seeing them in a different light.
They where put there for the reason of informing us, of giving us examples of what would happen in certain circumstances. Think about the Noah's ark story (which is what it is seen as today) there is meaning behind it, it is a way of communicating with people of the future, an easy language/illustration
Many of the different versions of the Bible are copies from times gone by originally by absolute scholars(Scribes) who's job it was, was to accurately make copies first in Hebrew then in Greek, latin etc etc, recent translations are written in the same context, ie old english, thee and thou art etc etc (KJ version) there are many variations between the different version where copyist have altered the text to suit the trends at the time and indeed until recent times the Bible was written in Latin, so only the "educated" ones could read it (clergy and so called church leaders and royals etc) They must have known what things were written (The Truth) they wouldn't ave liked what they read and so things were added and things were taken away or replaced, for instance, the name of our creator, it was replaced by the title Lord (with a capital L) all except for a few places, (Ps 83 v 18 Exodus 6:3 Isaiah 12:2; 26:4 Genasis 22:14; Exodus 17:15 Judges 6:24) where the context wouldn't allow it.
At the time it was deemed to be wrong to speak the name so THEY decided it would be best to remove it which goes against all the hard work of the original copyists for one thing, and has had the effect of throwing doubt on the authentisity of the message it contains.
Pete
This is just one example of supposed leaders of the people getting it wrong and steering people into darkness.
Pete
They where put there for the reason of informing us, of giving us examples of what would happen in certain circumstances. Think about the Noah's ark story (which is what it is seen as today) there is meaning behind it, it is a way of communicating with people of the future, an easy language/illustration
Many of the different versions of the Bible are copies from times gone by originally by absolute scholars(Scribes) who's job it was, was to accurately make copies first in Hebrew then in Greek, latin etc etc, recent translations are written in the same context, ie old english, thee and thou art etc etc (KJ version) there are many variations between the different version where copyist have altered the text to suit the trends at the time and indeed until recent times the Bible was written in Latin, so only the "educated" ones could read it (clergy and so called church leaders and royals etc) They must have known what things were written (The Truth) they wouldn't ave liked what they read and so things were added and things were taken away or replaced, for instance, the name of our creator, it was replaced by the title Lord (with a capital L) all except for a few places, (Ps 83 v 18 Exodus 6:3 Isaiah 12:2; 26:4 Genasis 22:14; Exodus 17:15 Judges 6:24) where the context wouldn't allow it.
At the time it was deemed to be wrong to speak the name so THEY decided it would be best to remove it which goes against all the hard work of the original copyists for one thing, and has had the effect of throwing doubt on the authentisity of the message it contains.
Pete
This is just one example of supposed leaders of the people getting it wrong and steering people into darkness.
Pete
It is incredible what people will believe when indoctrinated from an early age.
The Bilbe is inconsistent, amoral, racist, sexist and deeply offensive. It was written long ago by self-obsessed arrogant men who presumed their every though was guided by God.
If written today there would be an outcry due to the exaltation of the crimes against humanity it documents.
The Bilbe is inconsistent, amoral, racist, sexist and deeply offensive. It was written long ago by self-obsessed arrogant men who presumed their every though was guided by God.
If written today there would be an outcry due to the exaltation of the crimes against humanity it documents.
You are missing the 'utilitarian' approach to religion.
I've had so many people tell me things like ' It's such a comfort to have a faith'
This is a great confusion to those of us who see the world in terms of truth and fiction.
For many people it is less important whether or lot religion is actually right or true.
What they get out of it is more important.
They get a sense of community, of belonging, perhaps a sence of justice that evil cannot ultimately prevail and that maybe they will survive their own death.
If they have to convince themselves of a few fairy tales to get that they're happy to make that sacrifice.
This is why they mostly loose faith when faced with a great personal trajedy such as the death of a child.
Religion has broken that pact. It no longer gives them that comfort and they reject it and look for those things elsewhere.
Rationality really doesn't come into people's half as much as we'd all like to think.
Even our own - when did you last buy a car for transport or clothes for warmth and not because of how you thought owning them would make you feel?
Honest now!
I've had so many people tell me things like ' It's such a comfort to have a faith'
This is a great confusion to those of us who see the world in terms of truth and fiction.
For many people it is less important whether or lot religion is actually right or true.
What they get out of it is more important.
They get a sense of community, of belonging, perhaps a sence of justice that evil cannot ultimately prevail and that maybe they will survive their own death.
If they have to convince themselves of a few fairy tales to get that they're happy to make that sacrifice.
This is why they mostly loose faith when faced with a great personal trajedy such as the death of a child.
Religion has broken that pact. It no longer gives them that comfort and they reject it and look for those things elsewhere.
Rationality really doesn't come into people's half as much as we'd all like to think.
Even our own - when did you last buy a car for transport or clothes for warmth and not because of how you thought owning them would make you feel?
Honest now!
Craft, the Koran's a bit younger, but the sentiment remains the same.
Jake, I don't think they do 'mostly lose faith' when faced with a great personal tragedy. Some do, but I've known people rationalise tragedy by saying things like 'it's God's will' or 'God only takes the best', and carrying on in their belief regardless. Most believers never blame God for the bad. They excuse him every time.
I often buy clothes for warmth as well as style, but I must admit I have a very nice car. I'm promising myself the next one will be bought for practical reasons. We shall see. Watch this space. :o)
Jake, I don't think they do 'mostly lose faith' when faced with a great personal tragedy. Some do, but I've known people rationalise tragedy by saying things like 'it's God's will' or 'God only takes the best', and carrying on in their belief regardless. Most believers never blame God for the bad. They excuse him every time.
I often buy clothes for warmth as well as style, but I must admit I have a very nice car. I'm promising myself the next one will be bought for practical reasons. We shall see. Watch this space. :o)
Even today, cults spring up all the time and people are gullible to fall for them.
So just imagine how easy it would have been back then when the vast majority of the population was uneducated, couldn't read or write, the only news and information came via word of mouth, when a lot of the world around us was unexplainable because the science wasn't there (but you got on with your everyday existence by just accepting that these things happened).
Include a moral code that would promote a good society and a lot of people will jump on the bandwagon so that it becomes entrenched very quickly.
There were a lot of other lesser cults which just died out because they didn't draw as big an audience.
So just imagine how easy it would have been back then when the vast majority of the population was uneducated, couldn't read or write, the only news and information came via word of mouth, when a lot of the world around us was unexplainable because the science wasn't there (but you got on with your everyday existence by just accepting that these things happened).
Include a moral code that would promote a good society and a lot of people will jump on the bandwagon so that it becomes entrenched very quickly.
There were a lot of other lesser cults which just died out because they didn't draw as big an audience.
And another thing. Some of you don't know the difference between so-called fairy tales and philosophy. But what do I know? I believe in God so I must be a gullible numpty. I should be just like you superior intellects with your booze and drugs and offensive name-calling.
So you think there's nothing more to life than existence and nothing more to death than extinction? You think there's nothing more to nature than matter and energy? Keep dreaming. I pity you.
So you think there's nothing more to life than existence and nothing more to death than extinction? You think there's nothing more to nature than matter and energy? Keep dreaming. I pity you.
religious people tend to be happier people, apparently. So who can blame them? The pursuit of happiness is even written into the US constitution; and non-Americans also do their best to achieve it. Of course many insist it is preferable to know the truth even if it makes you unhappy. No shortage of peole around AB who revel in grumpiness.
When manufacturers want people to know about thier products, they enter into advertisement campains, they put ads on TV, radio in print and nowadays as we all get bombarded with them, on the World Wide Web, yes Worl Wide.... (familiar label) they aim for places where the most people will see it, where they will see a return for thier outlay and time etc.
Of all the Millions of people who see the ads, everyone of them is affected in some way. How? well if the ad has a catchy tune it sticks in the mind, if there are clever graphics it sticks in thier mind, if the product is something like what they are looking for, it sticks in thier mind, they may even aquire the product to try for themselves.
These are the ones who the advertiser is aiming at. Yes, there will also be many out there (I am one of them) who will be sceptical about the claims, these people are still having the product bonded in thier minds so the company can be in a win win situation. Even if one of the sceptics are lured away from thier narrow mindedness, that in itself makes the advertisement worthwile.
The advertiser wouldn't want to go back to the people and enter into arguments with them as this would negate the advertisement in the first instance and although the product would still be recieving publicity, it would be mostly negative publicity and that isn't what the advertiser wants.
Therefore the advertiser just circulates the information and leaves it for people to make up their own minds wether to make the purchas or not. Much the same as fishing.
Of all the Millions of people who see the ads, everyone of them is affected in some way. How? well if the ad has a catchy tune it sticks in the mind, if there are clever graphics it sticks in thier mind, if the product is something like what they are looking for, it sticks in thier mind, they may even aquire the product to try for themselves.
These are the ones who the advertiser is aiming at. Yes, there will also be many out there (I am one of them) who will be sceptical about the claims, these people are still having the product bonded in thier minds so the company can be in a win win situation. Even if one of the sceptics are lured away from thier narrow mindedness, that in itself makes the advertisement worthwile.
The advertiser wouldn't want to go back to the people and enter into arguments with them as this would negate the advertisement in the first instance and although the product would still be recieving publicity, it would be mostly negative publicity and that isn't what the advertiser wants.
Therefore the advertiser just circulates the information and leaves it for people to make up their own minds wether to make the purchas or not. Much the same as fishing.
Jock, I'm at a loss to know where you get the booze and drugs bit from, so I'll ignore that. If someone, regardless of the absence of evidence, believes something based only on hearsay, then he is gullible.
I don't think I go in for offensive name calling, and I have never said there's nothing more to life than existence, but I don't need to believe in a fabricated God to search for answers. If there are answers to be found, I would say they are far more likely to lie in matter and energy than in some vague, intangible product of the human psyche. There may be a God - no one knows - but I'm convinced it isn't the bloke you talk about. Think of the universe with its billions of stars and even more billions of planets. There's a good chance that civilisations have developed on some of those planets, so what makes you think you're unique or special to this God who supposedly created everything? But then Muslims think you're wrong, and they're the ones who are special, likewise the Jews, but we won't go down that road. Can you see the dilemma?
Incidentally, any non-believer who has studied the bible in any depth will never run out of arguments. Unless we totally ignore and dismiss a large proportion of it, we cannot deny its appalling content. Perhaps if believers were able to offer a more substantial argument they would be better equipped to defend their case.
Pete, you've shot yourself in the foot with your analogy to advertising. How many times do people fall for hyped-up sales ploys that offer a spectacularly amazing product, only to find that product useless and ineffective?
I don't think I go in for offensive name calling, and I have never said there's nothing more to life than existence, but I don't need to believe in a fabricated God to search for answers. If there are answers to be found, I would say they are far more likely to lie in matter and energy than in some vague, intangible product of the human psyche. There may be a God - no one knows - but I'm convinced it isn't the bloke you talk about. Think of the universe with its billions of stars and even more billions of planets. There's a good chance that civilisations have developed on some of those planets, so what makes you think you're unique or special to this God who supposedly created everything? But then Muslims think you're wrong, and they're the ones who are special, likewise the Jews, but we won't go down that road. Can you see the dilemma?
Incidentally, any non-believer who has studied the bible in any depth will never run out of arguments. Unless we totally ignore and dismiss a large proportion of it, we cannot deny its appalling content. Perhaps if believers were able to offer a more substantial argument they would be better equipped to defend their case.
Pete, you've shot yourself in the foot with your analogy to advertising. How many times do people fall for hyped-up sales ploys that offer a spectacularly amazing product, only to find that product useless and ineffective?
