Money and Religion

[naomi24]

Tonight's Italian lottery draw promises the winner �112m, but the Catholic church isn't happy.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/arti cle-1206036/Catholic-Church-slams-idol-worship -lottery-reaches-world-record-112million.html

Does the acquisition of money imperil religion, and if so, why?

[Ankou]

no not really.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/A LeqM5j0M0bHrHmm1WfloRGN-ZB_tUz8Lw

[naomi24]

Err .... what does that story have to do with religion?

[Ankou]

err giving some his winnings to all his employees might - in some parts of italy - be considered a very christian thing to do. he might even use the rest of the money for good deeds, which would count towards his heaven club points to get through the pearly gates.

no doubt all these cardinals are giving him a good talking to about where to store his loot, like in the vatican vaults for instance.

[naomi24]

Ah, I see. The story doesn't have anything to do with religion, but if you use your imagination, it might have.

[jake-the-peg]

That's funny!

Monsignor Domenico Sigalini, of the Italian Catholic Bishops Conference, said: 'This draw is immoral. It really has become a form of idol worship as here Man really is worshipping money instead of God.

Before spending an hour on his knees infront of a gloden statue of a woman holding a baby?

[andy-hughes]

The breathtaking hypocracy of the Catholic church rumbles on unchecked into the new century.

If the church wants to complain about money ill-soent, maybe it should take a stroll around the Vatican and check out which of the priceless works of art and artefacts could be sold, and money given to the poor. That's just the 1% that the public are allowed to see - what about the vaults crammed full of priceless art that never sees the light of day.

You don't have to wear your collar the wrong way round to be completely out of touch with reality - but it helps.

[Ankou]

quite right. religion is all about imagination. and priceless artefacts.

whilst i detest them in many ways, and i may be wrong, arent most of their priceless posessions ones that they commissioned the artist for or received as donations, and usually religious ? whilst their wealth lies in property and assets it doesnt provide cash for all the staff and business trips....

"The Vatican budget, which includes the Vatican Museums and the care of Vatican buildings, ended 2008 with a deficit of more than US$21 million, the Vatican reported on Jul 4.

The separate budget of the Holy See, which includes the offices of the Roman Curia, finished 2008 in better shape than a year earlier, but still registered a deficit of more than US$1.26 million."

hence a record number of cardinals were seen surreptitiously buying super enalotto tickets and praying most vigorously.

[naomi24]

I thought this was most significant too, Jake.

Monsignor Domenico Sigalini, of the Italian Catholic Bishops Conference, said: .......... 'It's a well-known fact that all those who have won a lot of money in the past have ended up being worse off - winning a lot of money is not a stroke of luck but a stroke of tragedy.'

A well known fact about ALL of them? I can't quite believe that. I expect he hopes the faithful will though. What nonsense these people talk.

Well said Andy. Anyone who has been to Rome will know exactly what you're talking about.

[Ankou]

ive ben to rome and the vatican museum. quite frankly once you have trecked along the 9 miles of corridors and rooms and seen the sistine chapel you've really had quite enough of religious art.

[J�tte]

The monsignor is right, that's the reason I don't work, everyone scrambling for every penny they can get. The state funds my point of view, so my conscience is clear, I'm not earning it.

[mibn2cweus]

J�tte, Surely you jest . . . right? If your not earning it then your getting it from those who did and who have been deprived rightful ownership, like a leach living off the spoils of thieves.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, wagering against reason on faith in an invisible god to be the winning combination is declared the only 'moral' option.

[naomi24]

Some interesting opinions, but none of them really address the question, so I'll put it slightly differently.

The church is worried that the acquisition of weath brings with it the abandonment of religion. Are they right? Does the acquisition of wealth negate a personal need for religion, and if so, why?

[Ankou]

no. everyone knows that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a camel than for a needle to enter god. it�s a famous bible story somewhere with papa lazaru and some bloke who like clothes and money, could be gok wan.

so they all stay poor and pure. popes cardinals bishops and priests are just �looking after� stuff until the next one comes along. they don�t actually �own� any wealth, well at least not when they are standing in front of the big almighty and nudging their toes through the gap in the pearly gates and pleading with his holiness to let them in.

[ll_billym]

On an individual person level I don't think a lottery win would change anybodies religious beliefs about the universe/world/how to treat fellow humans, etc. however it may mean they are off soending money a lot of the time and not go to church so often which I'm guessing is the churches problem with it.

The macro view is that 'rich' is purely a relative term, people are rich compared to other people so there will always be 'poor' people and slightly well off people etc. the percentages will never change as they are all based on each other.

It's like the teacher at the front of the class who says 'half of you scored below average marks on this test' when this would be true no matter what the test scores were. (Ok, they could all get 100% but you see the point)

So no, religion is no imperiled by riches.

[andy-hughes]

Easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven?

Oh heck - does Cliff Richard know about this?

[naomi24]

But did you know, Andy, some churches teach that 'The Needle' that Jesus referred to is a rock with a hole in it big enough for a small camel to pass through. Well, that's handy isn't it, because it means a rich man can go to heaven without giving all his money away, so Cliff is in!

Incidentally, I'm told this rock us situated somewhere in Jerusalem, but I've not found it there. Note to self - must remember to google that again.

[naomi24]

I googled and there is no such stone in Jerusalem. No surprise I haven't been able to find it then. :o)

http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.h tm

[Ankou]

no no no. it was a hole in the wall. everyone knows where it is.

http://www.woostercollective.com/2007/03/16/ca sh-machine-1---blog.jpg