The old testament

[claymore]

How old is the old testament, and was it around before Islam

[beso]

Nobody can be sure but the Old Testament is usually considered about 3000 years old. It is clear from its contents that it was written before the dawn of human intelligence in the region.

Keyplus will say it is younger than Islam because Islam was the first religion. Muhammed simply wrote down its tenants.

[rojash]

"tenants" ??

[sandyRoe]

Ruth went to live in the house of Boaz. wasn't she a tenant?

[Clanad]

I'm not sure what the phrase "before the dawn of human intelligence" is supposed to indicate, but many scholars believe the Old Testament Book of Job is the writing of greatest antiquity. The discovery of the fragments of Job written in paleo-Hebrew script among the Dead Sea materials seems to indicate an early origin of perhaps 2,000 years BCE.
Some conjecture, again by those who study such things, believe the Book was translated by Moses from hieroglyphs. The support for this conjecture is indicated from the style and construction of sentences apparent even when translated to English. The best evidence extant supports ca. 1600-1800 BCE as the era of Moses...

Certain phrase construction leads the etymologists to suggest Egyptians as the primary source... and then translated to earliest Hebrew by Moses. Torah supports Moses as the author... or at least translator...

I would agree, however that an early date for Quran is spurious... the Prophet of Islam (whose full name was Muhammad Ibne Abdullah) was born in 570 CE and died in 632 CE ... one authoritative source states "...in the year 610 (believed to be the 26th of Ramadan), while in a cave on Mt. Hirah, Muhammad said that the angel Gabriel appeared to him and commanded him to recite (96:1-19). This recitation became the Qur'an..."

[claymore]

Clanad, why do you say BCE? I thought it was just BC. what does the E mean ... before Christ existed, before Christ emerged, enlightened, enslaved, entertained,eventuated,eeeehaaaa, sorry ..got carried away a bit there :)

[Theland1]

BCE = Before Common Era

[beso]

By "before the dawn of human intelligence" I meant the rubbish wriiten in there is obviously not the result of intellect.

Keyplus claims that the practices of Islam are much older than Muhammed who just wrote it down.

[Clanad]

Thanks for the help, Theland... long time!

[mibn2cweus]

Gabriel is quite the gabber . . . and troublemaker tuh boot.
http://nowscape.com/mormon/mormons4.htm

[claymore]

Mib,.... just checked out that link. I thought I was crazy, Holy hell, are those people for real ? then again no matter how weird a religion is ,there are always people gullible enough to believe it. Even scientology takes a back seat to the Mormons,....only in America.

[naomi24]

Yes, it was around long before Islam. Islam just hijacked it.

Good link Mibs. The only thing I can see there that makes any sense is this:

//He's using logic and that's certainly not called for, especially in matters of faith. //

Why is it religion always claims to be the first with revelations?

//"Jesus-Jehovah reveled [sic] himself to our Mexican - American brethren ("'Not white, yea, not delightsome"). He came onto them in the form of Quetzal-coa-tl, the snake which sprouts feathers." ........To this day, Mormons and Central American Indians recognize the god Quetzalcoatl as the Feathered Serpent. //

That implies the Mormons brought the news to the people of Central America - but those people don't need to be told that the god Quetzalcoatl is the Feathered Serpent. He existed long before Joseph Smith.

[jake-the-peg]

Of course both "hijacked" Earlier books

The flood story and building an ark to save the animals is in the Book of Gilgamesh which predates the Bible.

The Abrahamic religions all draw too on Zoroastrianism who may have lived about 1,700 years ago

[naomi24]

And the Sumerian legends pre-date the Epic of Gilgamesh - so it seems the hijacking went on down the ages. Everyone was at it!

[keyplus90]

Beso mentioned me there for few statements. OT is not younger than Quran. It is older. What I said about Islam was that word Islam means “submitting your will to God” and the Muslim is the one who does that. And in that sense every prophet was a Muslim as they submitted their will to God and it is even mentioned in Bible.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, 'In that sense'. Here we go again. Let's make it up as we go along as we usually do. The religion of the Bible is Judaism, and since Islam wasn't created until long after the event none of the prophets could possibly have been Muslim. Wishful thinking Keyplus.

[keyplus90]

According to your definition if we accept Judaism, Christianity, Budhism as you make it are based upon one person who seems to be founder or a tribe. Then word Islam is wrong and should have been Muhammadism or Muhammadanism.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, What you want to call it is irrelevant. The fact is regardless of what you choose to believe, Islam did not exist before Mohammed invented it.