When Atheism becomes inhumane

[naomi24]

I spent a couple of hours today with a very dignified elderly gentleman who told me practically his life history. Brought up in an orphanage, adopted, and subsequently dreadfully mistreated, he left home at 15 to make his own way in the world. He survived a broken marriage, married again, and is now settled, very respectable, and reliant upon his faith to sustain him psychologically. He is aware of my complete and utter disdain for organised religion, but I have to say I was gentle with him because how can I, as someone who cares desperately about the plight of humanity, justify demolishing with reasoned and demonstrably provable argument this man's very personal shelter from the harshness of reality? Fellow atheists - please - tell me.

[WaldoMcFroog]

In the privacy of your own home or church, you can believe what you like and it is absolutely none of my business as long as you do not affect another person against their will.

Going out of your way to remove the comfort your chap derives from his faith for no good reason... It reminds me of David Thewliss's character destroying the nightwatchman in Naked (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N90sl94g7PE). Why would you, for no reason? Why would anyone? Why *should* you?

But, the moment you start pontificating about the right of women to control their fertility or be paid the same as men, or attempting to stop consenting adults to stop falling in love because they have the same shape genitals, or murdering innocent people in big buildings or down in tube stations or cutting bits off people, or saying it's OK to murder or otherwise deprive or infringe the rights of the bunch over yonder because your book says their god isn't real, or making my children attend compulsory religious services in school or restrict their ability to access education, or stop the teaching of robustly supported science because it contradicts your religious text of choice, or murdering film-makers or closing down plays because they dare criticise your religious text of choice or issuing death sentences against someone for drawing your prophet or or re-writing history or demanding special rights or tax exemptions or any other similar thing, you're fair game.

[naomi24]

Starbuck, oh yes, the point I'm making about suicide bombers is entirely relevant to this thread. People tell me I must respect other people's beliefs. I do? I don't think so. Babies dying of Aids/HIV? Female circumcision? Or perhaps on a less upsetting level, children in this country being taught demonstrably inaccurate scientific 'facts'. Where do you suggest I draw the line in the level of respect you expect me to demonstrate?

Thank you Waldo - welcome.

[naomi24]

Well, your decision, merlotman, but irrational since you clearly have no logical argument.

[ummmm]

I wouldn't waste your time Naomi. It'll just be -answer removed-

[naomi24]

Housemouse, have you actually read what I've said? This would appear to be one of those head slapping moments which are accompanied by the word 'Derrrrr'.

[ummmm]

I might be your friend. I don't know...

[A1Mikey]

On your reply to housemouse, you seem to be merging organized religion (perhaps a way of controlling the masses) with the existance of a creator. I do not believe in God but to use religion as a way to prove he exists, or does not exist, is a danagerous one.

Naomi24 can you prove you life is not a dream? You might be called Dave and have been in a coma for the past twenty years. If/When you wake from the coma how can you prove a creator won't be making himself known to you every week?

[naomi24]

Mikey, you sussed me!!

ummmm, interesting. :o)

[mibn2cweus]

It is when personal rights and freedom are in jeopardy, I feel compelled to defend myself and or come to the defense of others. I'm otherwise perfectly content to let crazy people be crazy. I don't question the limitations of another's ability or desire to further endure the harshness of reality. It's only their exist strategy that potentially concerns me.

However, as one who understands the importance of questioning the basis and veracity of ones own beliefs, I generally welcome a rational inquiry and evaluation of my own beliefs . . . 'rational' being the key word here. In that regard, "Have you accepted Jesus into your heart?" doesn't qualify.

[mibn2cweus]

In addition, I find preying on or taking advantage of those who have not yet developed the ability to, or who are otherwise incapable of, reason with religious or mystical mumbo jumbo unacceptable behavior as well. Any assertion, by virtue of having been presented, is subject to rational inquiry.

[Nadis]

As you had a very lengthy discussion and both your views on religion were expressed then if the man, after all he has been through is content and comfortable that what he believes is good for him then he should be left to his own followings. If the gentleman has nagging doubts about his belief and wants to look elsewhere for answers as you have Naomi then talking to you may have given him food for thought(so to speak).

[Nadis]

Just incase anyone doesn't know, my username is "Nadis" now but I used to be called "luna-sea" and I have been on and off this site since 2006. Just so I don't cause any confusion or people think I'm deceiving them.
Thanks again.

[society]

Naomi, what proof do you have that God does not exist? I'm assuming you choose to believe in what you see, what you have evidence of...

I'm not saying that I have proof, but, I do believe there is a God; he's in my mind, my faith.

And to answer your question – ...“justify demolishing with reasoned and demonstrably provable argument this man's very personal shelter from the harshness of reality? Fellow atheists - please - tell me.”

To each his own, it makes the man hopeful and content to believe in an entity which helps to ‘sustain’ him; let him be and don’t shatter his faith in God. That’s what pulled him through the hardships in his life.

[jd_1984]

Believe whatever you need to in order to find peace and contentment on this earth. It doesn't matter to me. That is about as simple as I can make it!

[naomi24]

Isn't it odd. That's exactly the point Society. This question is about my reluctance to dispel this man's beliefs, and yet few people here have actually understood that. They seem to think it's about the complete opposite. It seems the word 'Atheist' alone is enough to produce a white haze of utter incomprehension over the faithful and their apologists.

To answer your question, I don't have proof that God doesn't exist, and I've never claimed to. I do, however, have a plethora of evidence indicating that the God of Abraham is not the supreme creator - and so does anyone will take the time to read the 'holy' books There may well be an almighty spirit in the sky - I don't know - but it isn't the interloper Jehovah as the preachers would have you believe. It has to be something much, much bigger than him - and certainly something much more intelligent than him.

[society]

Naomi my friend, I wish you and your family a healthy, peaceful and blessed New Year. x

[Nadis]

If it's about your reluctance to dispel his beliefs then there must be something within you ushering you toward that way of thinking.
Be it kindness or loyalty or not wanting to upset the man, although he is quite able to decide for himself what path he wants to take and if that serves him well then why alter his way unless he has doubts himself.