Dressage

[Bazile]

Isn't the olympics about ' sports '

Dressage - Really? - is this a sport ?

[Old_Geezer]

As I already mentioned Woofie, although it is not an absolute description just a couple of necessary conditions: It must have an objective measure of who has won, it can not depend on someone's opinion of how good it seems to be. That opinion thing is more for judging art forms. Also it ought demand physical activity since otherwise it is probably just an academic pursuit. I'm sure folk can think of other requirements too.

Yes rsvp I'm sure it is but that doesn't make it a sport. It is an intellectual game/challenge.

The fact is that the Olympics probably haven't ever confined itself to sporting activities, Well maybe in ancient Greece; I'm no historian. Always someone with influence and a desire to get their favoured activity in, has been able to do so.

[woofgang]

so OG out goes gymnastics, diving, most of the ice rink events, possibly wrestling, boxing and Judo?

[Old_Geezer]

You make a good point. It's possible they aren't sports.

Most wrestling is acting anyway. Most ice rink events are clearly art (dance). Only the speed skating has a reason to consider itself a sport. Diving certainly isn't a sport, it too is an art form.

Gymnastics is questionable. It might be that the definition is incomplete, I'd like to think so. Judges giving scores because the competitor did something nicely is what makes it questionable; they should only be there to ensure it is done correctly. So despite having not considered it before, I think you are probably right, it seems not to be a sport either.

At least with the other two the judges should only be deciding who scored the most hits, falls, whatever. They ought not be giving points for nice footwork, a pretty hairstyle, or a good bounce up again.

[woofgang]

so any sport where a judge, referee or linesperson has to make a judgement about whether the hit/goal/etc was scored within the rues of the game.....cos that’s subjective as well...any activity where an appeal is possible and judges judge the appeal subjectively?

[Old_Geezer]

There is a word of difference between officiating whether what is meant to happen, has, and assigning a score for performance. I think one is trying to include anything one wants by the slippery slope argument. If this then that. and if that, then this other, and if this other then ....

It's fairly clear that the Olympics is not exclusively about sport but about anything where folk can compete and which someone can get past the committee that decides what to hold next time. Combine this with the lip service to amateurism when sponsor endorsement contracts exist, and payments into trust funds indicates all it isn't quite what it seems. Then layer on top the inability to spot drug cheats until years after the offence, if even then, and one see that it is simply a showpiece claiming to be an amateur sporting event.

[Old_Geezer]

In fact that answers Baz's initial question. No it's not about sports. It's meant to be but ...

[woofgang]

" It must have an objective measure of who has won, it can not depend on someone's opinion of how good it seems to be.”

But as soon as you have linesmen/women, judges or referees, surely it fails your test of objectivity? In fact the manoeuvres in dressage all have very tightly written criteria against which they must be measured.

[Old_Geezer]

No I do not accept that at all. They are not awarding points or deciding outcomes they are merely ensuring the game is properly conducted according to the rules. The objective measure of who wins is down to a score, for example goals. I grant you it will be better when tech removes all human decisions but prior to that, to claim everything is subjective based on a need for a referee is pushing the rule beyond all reasonable limits. You seem in peril of telling me next someone is subjectively deciding who crossed the marathon finishing tape first.

[anneasquith]

I watched the British female earlier, the horse was foaming at the mouth, the head held in such a restricted way for quite some time, didn't like it at all. :-(

[anneasquith]

And no I don't think the horse was enjoying the experience .

[DTCwordfan]

which one?

[anneasquith]

The one with the eye patch ( the rider )

[DTCwordfan]

anne, it's a horse's equivalent of extra lippy - actually, it usually means that they are enjoying themselves....

[DTCwordfan]

that was Fiona Bigwood, who has the patch as her right eye nerves were damaged from a fall....she's married to a Danish dressage rider.

[chrissa1]

And, Bazile...... Tonight's dressage by our Du Jardin lady wasn't marked on how a judge was looking at an "art form." The rider made a mistake and the horse didn't understand what she was asking him to do. Thus, she was marked dawn.

[anneasquith]

A horse foaming at the mouth means " the horse was enjoying itself"? Well it was the only one who seemed to enjoy it .!!!!!

[DTCwordfan]

I quote, 'Horse and Hounds' - Generally it's a good thing!- mine foam lots when being ridden, they certainly have no teeth probs- means they have a soft, responsive mouth- I wouldn't worry!

thttp://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?356187-Foaming-at-the-mouth-when-ridden&s=79802483e128042026ad1c882eef7fd7#SJCbylCWvhIFgQpI.99

[DTCwordfan]

Obviously, Anne wasn't reared on a pony's hindquarters....mind you, neither was I but two of my sisters provided adequate humour on this front.