Windows Operating system

[sp1214]

With the cost of hardware decreasing and the price of software increasing why is there no method of storing the operating system on a ROM chip? Not only will this speed up the system but also make it foolproof for hackers. Any patches to the system could be handled separately or with any new release another ROM chip could be issued,

[vehelpfulguy]

ASUS, who make motherboards, have recently announced that they are going to ship Linux in ROM on all their motherboards in future.

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/20 08/05/14/asus-ship-motherboards-linux

I think this would be VERY difficult to do with Windows.

Partly because of the licensing issues, the cost of Windows would have to be included in the cost of the motherboard or PC, and some people who already had Windows may not want it pre-installed in the ROM and have to pay for it.

Also there are so many versions of Windows (XP and Vista, Home and Business, OEM, Retail, Enterprise etc), plus of course the different language versions, so which version do you put in the ROM?

I think this is fairly easy to do with Linux as it is free, but very difficult to do with Windows or other operating system which is sold.

[vehelpfulguy]

Many technical devices that are sold nowadays DO have an operating system installed on the ROM, usually Linux.

Maybe not PCs, but devices like SatNavs, PDAs, and maybe even things like Sky boxes or other devices, come with Linux pre-installed in ROM.

In fact I saw an article in a PC magazine the other week (MicroMart ?) that said many people use Linux on a day by day basis without even being aware of it, in SatNavs and so on.

[ACtheTROLL]

Windows is routinely shipped on ROM
(it's known as "embedded") and has been around from the old NT3 days to the present
PDAs and smartphones use windows ce
and some "non computer" boxes such as BT's vision box.
and a couple of HDD\dvd recorders
the xbox
Even some washing machines.
some (un?)expected kit such as routers, firewalls and hardware virus boxes use server based versions

it's quite easy to create a CD\DVD\memory stick\flash based windows installs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BartPE (gives you an idea)
the PE environment is legal and forms the basis of quite a few repair utilities' startup discs
(I still cook my own multiboot utility disc (windows98+XP) and am fiddling with Vista (which microsoft themselves install from a vista pe startup disc)
but at the moment XP is smaller and easier to configure

and there are lots of pirate "distros" knocking about

Ironically it's a linux based bootstrap that forms the basis of the menu system

http://www.magiciso.com/tutorials/miso-create- multi-os-cd.htm

[sp1214]

Thanks, some very interesting answers

[sp1214]

If this is what ASUS is bringing out on their motherboard it can't come a moment too soon. As computers have become more and more powerful so the bootup time to access the internet and retrieving e-mails is getting longer and longer. It must bode well for the future.

Feature 4: 5 Seconds* from bootup to online with Express Gate
Many times, the PC is only switched on to access email, surf the Internet or chat with friends through instant messaging programs � so why waste precious minutes of your time just waiting for boot-up? In order to make PCs more accessible to people, ASUS has designed the exclusive Express Gate for rapid online access after bootup. In just 5 seconds, users will be able to enjoy Internet access, Skype calls, popular Instant Messengers (IM) like MSN or Yahoo Messenger, watch YouTube videos, view photos and check their emails � all without waiting to load Windows!

[fo3nix]

"with any new release another ROM chip could be issued"

This is daft. It's exactly why the internet is so important. Sending ROM chips is a huge expense and totally unnecessary when you have software distribution via the internet. Also, the ROM chip would likely be soldered.

"I think this is fairly easy to do with Linux as it is free, but very difficult to do with Windows or other operating system which is sold."

Linux is free of charge, but only by chance. You can very legally sell it if you want to, and some do. However, it's also free as in freedom (the part where Windows fails here), meaning that anyone is free to redistribute it and mess about with it.

Apart from the licensing issues with Windows, it's also a bukly OS to ship. Some GNU/Linux distros are much smaller, and more optimised for this kind of use. Windows does have its own, as AC says, Windows CE. But it's not half as featured as GNU/Linux could be, with the same space and speed requirements. (Forgetting any other issues.)

[ACtheTROLL]

you both mention lisencing as a problem .... but surely a rom (or more probably an eeprom) is less easily copied than a CD. But with the correct support ... can be upgraded relatively easily (back to the PDA)

The thing with embedded OSs is that they must work ....
so while the linux route is low cost ... it's not guaranteed.

the MS kernel (esp NT4) is used far more widely than you might think in true rom based distros where updates are not an option (unless done with a screwdriver)

Because it's only the logic that's used ... the front end and driver support (which is 80% of the bloat) is ditched ... leaving a tight machine code kernel using "hard wired" specific hardware control.

[sp1214]

Installing a new ROM chip for every new release may not be practicable but what about using firmware?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware

[ACtheTROLL]

s'wat I meant by back to the pda.

it shows the difference in needs....
appliances ... (at one time they all used an 8080 logic chip (not a processor!! - but very identical to the one in a pc)
didn't require updates ... a washing machine or microwave doesn't.

phone systems however did .... but used either an ungainly modem/serial arrangement ... or lumpy old proms ... progd centrally and posted out to a man in a van... either way out of the reach of your average punter.

then came pda ... everyone had one ... and because they were mainly owned by yuppies there had to be an upgrade path (even though people tended to go out and buy a new one)

lift sytems were time governed ... and had external inputs
(the first machine code I wrote was for a lift
s

y

s

e
e
e
e
e
e
e
e
e
m