ChatterBank6 mins ago
Could Our Present Day Feminists Do More Good Fighting For The Liberation Of Other Women Around The World?
11 Answers
http://
/// They speak, tweet, act and complain as though they were the victims of the worst patriarchal excesses of the past two millennia and not the most liberated, privileged generation of females to walk this earth. ///
/// Such is their lack of self-knowledge and perspective, they revel in casting themselves as victims of rampant gender-based injustice when, in fact, they enjoy lives of ideological luxury compared with most of the planet's female population. In acts of unbridled narcissism, they indulge in irrelevant self-pity and shallow soundbite gender politics, while at the same time ignoring many of the genuine and truly shocking abuses of women around the world. ///
/// And like all extremist groups, they hate anyone - male or female - who does not subscribe to their creed. They are intolerant, irrational and entirely without
irony. ///
/// They speak, tweet, act and complain as though they were the victims of the worst patriarchal excesses of the past two millennia and not the most liberated, privileged generation of females to walk this earth. ///
/// Such is their lack of self-knowledge and perspective, they revel in casting themselves as victims of rampant gender-based injustice when, in fact, they enjoy lives of ideological luxury compared with most of the planet's female population. In acts of unbridled narcissism, they indulge in irrelevant self-pity and shallow soundbite gender politics, while at the same time ignoring many of the genuine and truly shocking abuses of women around the world. ///
/// And like all extremist groups, they hate anyone - male or female - who does not subscribe to their creed. They are intolerant, irrational and entirely without
irony. ///
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Just had a quick look at the Link,
http://
I can, to be fair see why this lot are upset, let's be honest, none of them are going to make it to Page 3 are they?
http://
I can, to be fair see why this lot are upset, let's be honest, none of them are going to make it to Page 3 are they?
Hmm.
As far as I can see this article makes the mistake of a whole host of others on this subject (and, for that matter, so many other subjects) of confusing the loudest excesses of "feminism" with the mainstream of the movement, such as it is. Hence feminism is slowly becoming synonymous in some circles with misandry, which is completely untrue and unfair.
As a second point, it may well be true that this generation of women and transpeople live in "ideological luxury" compared with much of the rest of the world -- but, again, that doesn't mean that everything is now rosy, hunky-dory, and there are no problems left to solve. Roughly speaking, we have now reached a point in the western world where conscious sexism is no longer acceptable, and there are almost no theoretical bars that apply to stop women from achieving equality in the workplace. But there are plenty of *practical* ones left over. Unconscious biases abound still, because the attitudes that allowed sexism to be paraded openly until very recently are still pervasive in some people, some professions, and some attitudes. This is still true, no matter how people try to insist that everything is rosy, and there remain plenty of signs of this.
Of course there are some who call themselves feminists who take it to excess, over-react, fight crusades against things almost for the sake of it, and generally make themselves a laughing stock and risk bringing discredit to the entire position. But they remain a minority, and it is a mistake to assume that they are anything other than just a small but loud section of "feminism".
* * *
To address a couple of the specific points in the article: it would be nice to think that womankind has had more remarkable things to celebrate in 2015 than "woman gives birth to child" and "current representative of archaic instititution manages not to die another year" (I actually admire Elizabeth II and the monarchy but it seems odd to place it so highly among the pantheon of 'things women have done in 2015').
With respect to the equal pay for film actors -- it seems surprisingly difficult to get across the point that the principle "how much you get shouldn't have anything to do with your gender" doesn't stop mattering once you pass a certain salary. Film pay is a bit of a tricky subject because it's also affected by plenty of other factors, eg total screen time, which agent was negotiating your salary, etc, but women shouldn't get less than men because they are women -- and that remains true no matter how high your salary is.
I'm not sure if the quote from Rashida Manjoo is entirely correct: her report can be found here: http://
It highlights plenty of remaining issues, complete with citations; I think the mistake again is in taking the apparent excesses of her remark (other sources suggest merely that she said the UK was "more sexist than other countries" that could be "some others" or "all others") and using that to reject pretty much everything else she may want to have said. Please do read her report in full.
The Tim Hunt thing... it seems very likely now that his initial remarks have been taken out of context (he could probably have done with apologising in a clearer way, though), and it's a matter of record on AB that I fell for that trap myself. It's probably better to regard that not as a feminist thing, but as a modern internet thing -- it's becoming sadly all too easy to get swept up in a storm in the internet age, no matter how sensible you are usually. Tim Hunt was a victim of the modern world; many other people will be too, and for a whole variety of perceived offences.
I think that's as good a thought as any to end this post with: the problem is not really with feminism, which remains important in the UK. The world is just so much more open these days that excesses get more coverage, and loud people can shout even louder than before.
As far as I can see this article makes the mistake of a whole host of others on this subject (and, for that matter, so many other subjects) of confusing the loudest excesses of "feminism" with the mainstream of the movement, such as it is. Hence feminism is slowly becoming synonymous in some circles with misandry, which is completely untrue and unfair.
As a second point, it may well be true that this generation of women and transpeople live in "ideological luxury" compared with much of the rest of the world -- but, again, that doesn't mean that everything is now rosy, hunky-dory, and there are no problems left to solve. Roughly speaking, we have now reached a point in the western world where conscious sexism is no longer acceptable, and there are almost no theoretical bars that apply to stop women from achieving equality in the workplace. But there are plenty of *practical* ones left over. Unconscious biases abound still, because the attitudes that allowed sexism to be paraded openly until very recently are still pervasive in some people, some professions, and some attitudes. This is still true, no matter how people try to insist that everything is rosy, and there remain plenty of signs of this.
Of course there are some who call themselves feminists who take it to excess, over-react, fight crusades against things almost for the sake of it, and generally make themselves a laughing stock and risk bringing discredit to the entire position. But they remain a minority, and it is a mistake to assume that they are anything other than just a small but loud section of "feminism".
* * *
To address a couple of the specific points in the article: it would be nice to think that womankind has had more remarkable things to celebrate in 2015 than "woman gives birth to child" and "current representative of archaic instititution manages not to die another year" (I actually admire Elizabeth II and the monarchy but it seems odd to place it so highly among the pantheon of 'things women have done in 2015').
With respect to the equal pay for film actors -- it seems surprisingly difficult to get across the point that the principle "how much you get shouldn't have anything to do with your gender" doesn't stop mattering once you pass a certain salary. Film pay is a bit of a tricky subject because it's also affected by plenty of other factors, eg total screen time, which agent was negotiating your salary, etc, but women shouldn't get less than men because they are women -- and that remains true no matter how high your salary is.
I'm not sure if the quote from Rashida Manjoo is entirely correct: her report can be found here: http://
It highlights plenty of remaining issues, complete with citations; I think the mistake again is in taking the apparent excesses of her remark (other sources suggest merely that she said the UK was "more sexist than other countries" that could be "some others" or "all others") and using that to reject pretty much everything else she may want to have said. Please do read her report in full.
The Tim Hunt thing... it seems very likely now that his initial remarks have been taken out of context (he could probably have done with apologising in a clearer way, though), and it's a matter of record on AB that I fell for that trap myself. It's probably better to regard that not as a feminist thing, but as a modern internet thing -- it's becoming sadly all too easy to get swept up in a storm in the internet age, no matter how sensible you are usually. Tim Hunt was a victim of the modern world; many other people will be too, and for a whole variety of perceived offences.
I think that's as good a thought as any to end this post with: the problem is not really with feminism, which remains important in the UK. The world is just so much more open these days that excesses get more coverage, and loud people can shout even louder than before.
The article is a deliberate dig at feminists in this country. Women's rights groups for both domestic and international causes abound. Here's a list:
https:/
https:/
Well my answer to that would be that the "tiny slights" aren't actually all that tiny really; relative to the worst excesses of fundamentalist Islam they may be tiny, but relative to how things really should be they remain very much real problems that require solving.
Anyway the real battle for feminism in Saudi Arabia, say, will have to come from within the country and not from without.
Anyway the real battle for feminism in Saudi Arabia, say, will have to come from within the country and not from without.
In case people have forgotten the 'witch-hunt' of Hunt to which Jim was referring. Makes fascinating reading. (Not one for the AB right-on brigade, unless they like cringing in embarrassment)
http://
http://
It got better, Naomi. Turned out his accuser was a liar and a fraud. And her report of what happened was in keeping with her nature. ;o)
http://
http://
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