Body & Soul0 min ago
Wine Off The Menu For A Meal Between Presidents
40 Answers
Clash of cultures! Hollande standing up for French values! If he came to the UK we would have burka clad women lining the route
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Answers
This matter has been widely reported across the media spectrum, Andy, from the Daily Mail to the Guardian and the BBC. All the reports say much the same thing. I don’t think it is being reported simply to fan the flames of Muslim hatred. I thought I recalled a similar incident involving President Rohani occurring before Christmas and it seems I was right:...
15:49 Thu 28th Jan 2016
This matter has been widely reported across the media spectrum, Andy, from the Daily Mail to the Guardian and the BBC. All the reports say much the same thing. I don’t think it is being reported simply to fan the flames of Muslim hatred.
I thought I recalled a similar incident involving President Rohani occurring before Christmas and it seems I was right:
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The circumstances seem almost identical (so much so, in fact, I had to check the item out in case it was referring to the latest debacle). I’m still confused though because this latest report refers to the current trip as Mr Rohani’s first state visit.
Anyway, no matter. I don’t believe Linda or I (or anybody else) have been manipulated by the media. The reports I have read seem consistent. My view is that many Muslims are indeed intransigent and backward-looking, If they want to do deals on the world stage they must appreciate that not everybody shares their customs and values and that when visiting other countries they may encounter things that they may not find to their taste (which others visiting them certainly do). This they seem singularly unable to do. As I said earlier, if a non-Muslim visited a Muslim country and demanded wine with his dinner he would – quite rightly - receive very short shrift. There would be no talk of a compromise and it certainly would not make the headlines.
I thought I recalled a similar incident involving President Rohani occurring before Christmas and it seems I was right:
http://
The circumstances seem almost identical (so much so, in fact, I had to check the item out in case it was referring to the latest debacle). I’m still confused though because this latest report refers to the current trip as Mr Rohani’s first state visit.
Anyway, no matter. I don’t believe Linda or I (or anybody else) have been manipulated by the media. The reports I have read seem consistent. My view is that many Muslims are indeed intransigent and backward-looking, If they want to do deals on the world stage they must appreciate that not everybody shares their customs and values and that when visiting other countries they may encounter things that they may not find to their taste (which others visiting them certainly do). This they seem singularly unable to do. As I said earlier, if a non-Muslim visited a Muslim country and demanded wine with his dinner he would – quite rightly - receive very short shrift. There would be no talk of a compromise and it certainly would not make the headlines.
If the Iranians refuse to eat a meal with a person drinking wine, they are at fault.
If the French refuse to serve a halal meal to a Muslim (or allow the Muslim chefs to cook their own meal), they are at fault.
Reading the respective articles, I cannot tell which of the above has happened. Either way, it seems petty.
If the French refuse to serve a halal meal to a Muslim (or allow the Muslim chefs to cook their own meal), they are at fault.
Reading the respective articles, I cannot tell which of the above has happened. Either way, it seems petty.
NJ
You wrote:
This matter has been widely reported across the media spectrum, Andy, from the Daily Mail to the Guardian and the BBC. All the reports say much the same thing.
That's because of the way the news now works.
All major newspapers in the UK now rely on a very small number of news agencies for stories. They have cut back on reporters and journalists, and instead take pre-packaged stories from, say - Reuters.
Notice how in many cases, you can read a story in one newspaper, and it will be word-for-word exactly the same story in another?
It means that if there is inaccuracies in the feed, the inaccuracy will be reported consistently across a wide number of papers.
Just because a story is widely reported, doesn't make it true or a fair reflection of events.
You wrote:
This matter has been widely reported across the media spectrum, Andy, from the Daily Mail to the Guardian and the BBC. All the reports say much the same thing.
That's because of the way the news now works.
All major newspapers in the UK now rely on a very small number of news agencies for stories. They have cut back on reporters and journalists, and instead take pre-packaged stories from, say - Reuters.
Notice how in many cases, you can read a story in one newspaper, and it will be word-for-word exactly the same story in another?
It means that if there is inaccuracies in the feed, the inaccuracy will be reported consistently across a wide number of papers.
Just because a story is widely reported, doesn't make it true or a fair reflection of events.
In a hotel in Kerala I asked for a bottle of Kingfisher with our meal. The waiter brought the beer with the bottle wrapped in brown paper. The cost of the beer did not appear on the bill but on a separate scrap of paper with 'pop juice' and the price written thereon. Bit of private enterprise going on there, I think.
Not so much a clash of cultures, more a clash of idiots. That said maybe it'll clear the air and define what is and is not acceptable in any future meeting.
Of course the correct procedure would have been something akin to :
We intend to serve wine at the meal, may I assume you won't require any ?
Thank you for your consideration, Yes, I do not require any, it is against my beliefs.
But I take it that you won't object that I have some ?
Oh no, you are the host, you go right ahead.
Thank you.
Of course the correct procedure would have been something akin to :
We intend to serve wine at the meal, may I assume you won't require any ?
Thank you for your consideration, Yes, I do not require any, it is against my beliefs.
But I take it that you won't object that I have some ?
Oh no, you are the host, you go right ahead.
Thank you.
Yes but if what we are led to believe is true (and despite the misgivings mentioned there must be some truth in the story as the meeting was, apparently, cancelled) that is not what happened. Your scenario is the one I would expect of any decent guest, OG. Nobody suggested that their mouths would be forcibly held open and the booze poured down them. It was against their faith to serve alcohol so nobody must have it. There's no other take on it.
"We went to Morocco a couple of years ago.
Wine with every meal.
Except breakfast.* "
Not quite the same thing, sp. I have been to many Muslim countries where booze is freely available. The difference is that the tourist trade in those countries know that if they did not they would see far fewer guests. being so Can you imagine the Maldives (where I have visited a dozen times) being so popular if guests spent every evening sipping Rose Water (whatever that is). When business and cash is at stake religious principles seem to take a less prominent place. Mr Rohani had nothing to lose. Your hotelier in Morocco certainly did.
"We went to Morocco a couple of years ago.
Wine with every meal.
Except breakfast.* "
Not quite the same thing, sp. I have been to many Muslim countries where booze is freely available. The difference is that the tourist trade in those countries know that if they did not they would see far fewer guests. being so Can you imagine the Maldives (where I have visited a dozen times) being so popular if guests spent every evening sipping Rose Water (whatever that is). When business and cash is at stake religious principles seem to take a less prominent place. Mr Rohani had nothing to lose. Your hotelier in Morocco certainly did.
the bermondsey square hotel was bought by islamic interests in 2014 and shortly after they announced the fare on sale in the hotel would be sharia-compliant.
their current menus definitely indicate an absence of pork products, and alcohol.
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for an establishment so close to the shard and all the fiscal action of the city of london, such a move might have been perceived as commercial suicide. and yet they're still trading, so the market for their (reduced) product range must be stable.
their current menus definitely indicate an absence of pork products, and alcohol.
http://
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for an establishment so close to the shard and all the fiscal action of the city of london, such a move might have been perceived as commercial suicide. and yet they're still trading, so the market for their (reduced) product range must be stable.
I doubt the same would be true of an island resort in the Maldives going "dry".
The critical difference is that resorts on the Maldives attract very few, if any, Muslim guests and it is very doubtful that any becoming Sharia-friendly would do so. In Bermonsey there are no doubt a sizeable number of Muslims (or non-Muslims not wanting a drink) among the target clientele there.
There was a story in the business news a couple of weeks ago about a Muslim business group that has taken over a number of petrol stations/convenience stores (about 300 in total). They are to stop selling alcohol ("not on religious grounds but on the grounds they believe it is immoral to sell alcohol to people who are driving"). It will be interesting to see how they fare. I imagine they will do alright because there are plenty of alternative places to buy booze other than your local petrol station. There are no such alternatives in the Maldives.
The critical difference is that resorts on the Maldives attract very few, if any, Muslim guests and it is very doubtful that any becoming Sharia-friendly would do so. In Bermonsey there are no doubt a sizeable number of Muslims (or non-Muslims not wanting a drink) among the target clientele there.
There was a story in the business news a couple of weeks ago about a Muslim business group that has taken over a number of petrol stations/convenience stores (about 300 in total). They are to stop selling alcohol ("not on religious grounds but on the grounds they believe it is immoral to sell alcohol to people who are driving"). It will be interesting to see how they fare. I imagine they will do alright because there are plenty of alternative places to buy booze other than your local petrol station. There are no such alternatives in the Maldives.
Yesterday I listened on BBC iPlayer Radio, to this week's BBC4 'From a foreign correspondent' which is introduced by Kate Adie, (you can check it yourself).
In it is an appalling piece of distortion by a blinkered BBC apologist reporting the view of a 22 year old millionaire, who is the son of a millionaire, who says how he thinks immigrants are going to be good for his family's business and further, how welcoming the German people are. This clown, and the clown reporter, present a completely fabricated version of what is actually going on here. Everyone is extremely concerned about what is being allowed to happen.
In it is an appalling piece of distortion by a blinkered BBC apologist reporting the view of a 22 year old millionaire, who is the son of a millionaire, who says how he thinks immigrants are going to be good for his family's business and further, how welcoming the German people are. This clown, and the clown reporter, present a completely fabricated version of what is actually going on here. Everyone is extremely concerned about what is being allowed to happen.
//who says how he thinks immigrants are going to be good for his family's business //
well they will be. they'll be accommodated by the employer (or an associate) in slum landlord accommodation and paid sub living wage salaries. this is today's sustainable business plan, the one with an illegal workforce. that's how millionaires stay millionaires, by spending someone else's money
well they will be. they'll be accommodated by the employer (or an associate) in slum landlord accommodation and paid sub living wage salaries. this is today's sustainable business plan, the one with an illegal workforce. that's how millionaires stay millionaires, by spending someone else's money
//who says how he thinks immigrants are going to be good for his family's business //
well they will be. they'll be accommodated by the employer (or an associate) in slum landlord accommodation and paid sub living wage salaries. this is today's sustainable business plan, the one with an illegal workforce. that's how millionaires stay millionaires, by spending someone else's money
well they will be. they'll be accommodated by the employer (or an associate) in slum landlord accommodation and paid sub living wage salaries. this is today's sustainable business plan, the one with an illegal workforce. that's how millionaires stay millionaires, by spending someone else's money
//who says how he thinks immigrants are going to be good for his family's business //
well they will be. they'll be accommodated by the employer (or an associate) in slum landlord accommodation and paid sub living wage salaries. this is today's sustainable business plan, the one with an illegal workforce. that's how millionaires stay millionaires, by spending someone else's money
well they will be. they'll be accommodated by the employer (or an associate) in slum landlord accommodation and paid sub living wage salaries. this is today's sustainable business plan, the one with an illegal workforce. that's how millionaires stay millionaires, by spending someone else's money
I wouldn't say "freely available" Available for some tourists "under the counter" and only when it suits the Muslims.
But we've been diverted. That isn't the issue here. The issue here is that foreigners visit a nation where alcohol is more readily accepted and demand it is taken off the table where they sit. And that's just the same as a foreigner visiting a Muslim country and demanding it be made available.
But we've been diverted. That isn't the issue here. The issue here is that foreigners visit a nation where alcohol is more readily accepted and demand it is taken off the table where they sit. And that's just the same as a foreigner visiting a Muslim country and demanding it be made available.
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