The age of fascism draws close

[lightoftruth]

I was just perusing through the bbbc and found this article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5018718.stm

The goverment has crossed the line. If people werent persistant in there protests then slavery would be still around and india wouls still be under harsh british rule.

I can guarantee you that we are going to see a age of full on violent protests in oxford if you push people to far they will go to extreme measures.

This also is really intresting when we link it with I.D cards and the removal of the anti-war protestor outside parliament.

This is how fascism starts my friends

[Oneeyedvic]

As I have said before: put your name & address on this site and let people decide for themselves.

You are so keen to protest - well, I too am keen to protest - about how behaviour of some activists is absolutely disgusting (and I would remind people that on a previous topic you stated that you would happily kill a human to save the life of a few animals).

Put up your details up, and let me and other likeminded people come round to your house, wave placards, grafitti your stuff, throw paint over your car and desecrate the grave of a loved one.

How you can compare a humans life to an animals is quite frankly beyond me.

[Grunty]

There is no need to add to what Vic says, but I would like to agree with him.

[lightoftruth]

Im not talking about animal rights here. If you want to comment on that debate then post your "comments" there.

I am trying to highlight how our right to protest is being eroded.

And oneyedvic if you want to protest you can i have no problem with that so go and join pro-test or some other scientifically pointless organsiation.

[undercovers]

we do not live in a free society - but this does not mean that fascism has won the day, rather it means that our personal conduct is controlled by the state inorder to balance the right to free will against the need to protect others in society... here we have an example of the courts attempting to strike that balance between the needs of the oxford uni to conduct its business and the rights of the protesters to object.

[Oneeyedvic]

Okay, leaving aside animal rights;

I do agree with you on ID cards & Brian Haw. There have also been various laws that the government have tried (and sometimes succeeded) getting through which are an erosion of civil liberties: Remember the 80 year old at the Labour party conference who was held on Terrorist charges?

Whilst I would not call this a police state or a dictatorship (yet) I do see where you are going and do broadly agree.

However, I would say that comparing Brian Haw to those idiots at Oxford is not right in my view.

I would further point out that when you say "If people werent persistant in there protests then slavery would be still around and india wouls still be under harsh british rule."[sic] the British Empire is a complex issue (and possibly worthy of a different discussion) but again is not comparable to 'modern day' protest.

[lightoftruth]

oneeyedvic - we evidently differ in our views on the value of an animals life but i beliieve that a movement that iis trying to free thousands of species from torture can be placed on similar par to the civil rights movement.

Surely a civilisaton which holds compassion for all creatures can be viewed as far superior

[Oneeyedvic]

As you say - different views, and whilst I am open to debate and reason on a lot of topics, I am afraid I doubt I will ever see the life of a rat, beagle or even a monkey as more important or valuable that a human's life.

To give equal stature to those trying to free animals as civil rights protestors who fought for freedom of slaves is (imho) as ludicrous as saying that a person who kills an anthill is as demented as someone like Hitler.

[ll_billym]

I agree that some of the things the protestors have done are bad, however they should be prosecuted under normal laws such as criminal damage, harrasment etc.

To try to impose rules on how they can protest is wrong as a protest that is conducted in a way that is agreeable to the party that is being protested against isn't any protest at all.

Unfortunately the only way to get the message in the public eye and to actually force change is to shock, and I agree that if all historical protests had been like the ones the courts seem to want nowadays our world would be a much worse place to live in.

"Of course you can protest, just do it quietly.. over there".

[ll_billym]

Also, the view that an animals life is less important than a humans life is purely a humans subjective view.

I would consider that my life is much more valuable than yours vic but I'm sure your family would disagree...!

[jake-the-peg]

The judge agreed to "moderately" increase the exclusion zone. He also banned the Thursday protesters from using a megaphone.

Doesn't sound much like kristallnacht to me!

[Oneeyedvic]

"Also, the view that an animals life is less important than a humans life is purely a humans subjective view." - yes, but since I am human (most of the time), my view will be based on that.

With regards the protesters - it is not practical to arrest 100 people who are causing harrasment to workers - and the CPS are hardly likely to prosecute. Harrassment is a very difficult case to prove adn with regards the criminal damage - suprisingly they tend to wear masks etc and hide behind their annonimity (rather ironic that they want to hide themselves but also want to name other people).

The only sensible solution is to say here is a line. Cross it and you will be punished - that way, everyone knows where they stand (excuse the pun). There have to be rules about protests otherwise we may as well have anarchy.

[ll_billym]

Well at least we (kind of) agree on the importance of life issue. Personally I think that there are many humans on death row that deserve to have drug tests run on them - and this would be of much more benefit to mankind as you are at least testing on the same species - than (cliche) innocent animals.

I take your point about a line but unfortunately a protest with boundries isn't a protest, it is just a meeting for like minded people to stand and have a chat amongst themselves. I feel that this ruling is just a way to make it easy to arrest the protestors for breaking rules that have been made up purely for this situation. No megafones, where else in the UK are megafones illegal? If you want to arrest people for breaking the law of the land do so, people have been killed for their views throughout history but I do feel that this situation is targeting a group of people for the simple reason that they don't agree with the establishment. Not quite fascism but certainly a step in that direction.

[THECORBYLOON]

Can you explain the Government's role in this story?