wiring up lights

[gucciman]

i've just boarded out the loft (just to use for storage not a full conversion) and would like to put some permanant lighting up there as its quite a big space and one inspection lamp on an extension cord is not good enough.

i need some advice from the electricians on answerbank.

1 - bulbs or fluorescent lighting?

2 - if bulbs i was going to put a bulb in each corner, 4 in total. is there a limit to the wattage of bulb i can use or the total wattage etc i.e. can i use 4 x 60 watts or 4 x 100 watts

3 - if fluorescent what wattage would be best, in b and q they had 18 watts and 36 watts, i was thinking 2 x 36 watts would be needed for a loft of my size (16ft wide x 24 ft long)

4 - what cable do i need to use? do i have to use the flat cable as i find that stuff really hard to use and to trim, round cable is much easier to handle but is it acceptable for permanant lighting? i noticed the cable is rated for maximum amps, what does this mean and what amps would i need for my lighting project

5 - lastly, how do i wire the things up?

[heathfield]

From your questions, I'd seriously advise getting in someone who can do it for you.

[gucciman]

so would i if the crooks charged a reasonable price instead of trying to take you to the cleaners.

i had one prat who quoted �250 to wire up my pond pump and 2 carriage lamps on the outside of the house, the electrician at work (who doesn't do private work) that �50 would have been fair.

another moron quoted �375 to install a new loft hatch, a friend did it for �70 in the end.

is it any wonder that people end up doing the work themselves and blowing themselves up!

[Electrochem]

Under current legislation, I think you will find that you will have to get a qualified electrician to do the work.

You can do simple things like change a plug or similar.

http://www.westminster.gov.uk/environment/landandpremises/buildings/partp.cfm

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1130907

These should be helpful.

[raysparx]

Hi gucciman, if you are doing the work yourself it will be much quicker to do the wiring in 3 core flex with a plug top on the end that you plug into a socket on the landing,I would go for the fluorescent lighting as it gives a good overall light and does not get as hot as normal light bulbs, if you use a flex go for .75 mm 3 core,connect the flex into the first fitting and fix in position then run the flex to the next fitting,at this fitting you will obviously have two flexes fix and connect second fitting,you can clip flex to the rafters,then leave enough flex to drop through loft hatch to reach nearest socket,connect plug top replace 13 amp fuse with 5 amp,job done, if you start putting fixed wiring in it is very difficult to explain in words how to connect to the supply and incorporate a switch, hope this helps, take care, Ray

[raysparx]

As you will have seen from what Electrochem says,most work is notifiable,but if you do the work in flex with a plug top it wouldn't be fixed wiring, so it should not be a problem,

[turboped]

The work describeds does not need building regs or certification providing it is an extension of an existing circuit but from your limited knowledge of electrics I would advise yopu to leave well alone.

I would like to say to gucciman that there are some of us that charge a fair days pay for a fair days work. I's easy for your mate to say �50 is a fair price when he works for someone else if he had to buy and maintain tools, test equipment, van, insurance, etc, etc etc. I would charge �40 - �50 to turn up with the right materials and ready to get started and �20 - �25/hour after and I think that's a bargain.

[gucciman]

turbo, how can you charge 40 to 50 quid just to turn up? thats absolutely disgraceful, my old mans a heating engineer and he'd never dream of charging such a fee.

thanks for your answer raysparx. i was actually thinking about doing just what you said and plugging into a socket, then the next time my dad visits he can wire it into the lighting circuit for me.

[turboped]

No it's not!

How much do you think it costs just to run a business?

[gucciman]

if your just a one man band with a van and an ad in the yellow pages then it doesn't cost a lot, if your a larger firm with employees, premises and perhaps a stores then obviously it costs more.

if i was ringing round looking for a tradesman theres no way id even consider the ones with a call-out fee. 25 quid an hr is more than enough, i only get 8 quid an hr in my laboratory job, and i don't get paid extra just for turning up. and before you say anything about you having done an apprenticeship and having valuable skills ive got qualifications coming out of my ears and spent 5 yrs studying for my professional exams

[turboped]

It's not a call out fee it's the minimum that makes it worthwhile to turn up and start work. If you wanted me to come to your house and spend 1 hour doing a job you can't expect to pay just �20 - �25 for my time. Don't forget you get paid holidays, pension and the ultimate responsibility for your work lies with your employer.

[gucciman]

20 to 25 is exactly what id expect to pay for an hr of your time, your an electrician not a brain surgeon

[turboped]

The friend you paid �70. I suppose he declared it for TAX?

[gucciman]

people in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones!

anyway, lights are all up and running. put 2 36w 4ft fluorescent strips up in the end. used 1.5mm flat cable, came off a live feed from a ceiling rose so all wired in permanantly.

all done for the princely sum of 20 quid and 3 hrs not so hard work.

[raysparx]

Hi gucciman,

I would keep it quiet that you have wired it in permanently, because any extension to a circuit should be installed,inspected & tested in accordance with BS 7671 and a minor works certicate supplied to show it had been done by a competant person, for future reference, any extension or alteration even earthing in a special location( Kitchen,Bathroom,) must be notified to the local council,either by a registered person or before you start the work if you want to do it yourself they will then send somebody out to check it has been done correctly,that is why I reccomended putting a plug top onto flex,not fixed wiring, I can understand turbos rates as last year I had to register (�500) test equipment(�750) College & books(�300) IPublic liability & van insurance (�500) test forms (�200) and each job registered costs �3.00 plus we don't get holiday pay.sick pay,dole money, it is a struggle sometimes being self employed,hope this helps to clarify his point a bit, cheers, Ray

[turboped]

Thanks for the support Raysparx but I think your wrong about the notification, extensions to a circuit don't require notification unless they are in a special location.

I don't understand the glasshouses comment though??? Surely your not suggesting that I would work for cash without declaring it for TAX, the penalties if you get caught are not worth the hassle, and the TAX man usually goes for the traders they know exist and leave the hard options alone i.e. the people that never pay TAX.

[turboped]

Just an aside. I've seen many DIY electrical jobs in my time and not one would pass my standards, people usually think that if it works it must be Okay, not so. I'd love to see the standard of this excellant loft lighting job.

[raysparx]

Hi gucciman, I am not saying it requires notification,I am saying any alteration or extension to a circuit requires a minor works certificate,which is not notifiable it just confirms that it has been done to an acceptable standard,I know this is fact because I have to issue hundreds of them,hope this clarifies what I meant, Ray

[raysparx]

Hi again, I never mentioned glasshouses,Ray

[gucciman]

where did i mention that my wiring job was "excellent" ? they're up, they work and it was cheap, good enough for me shag

thanks for your advice raysparx, was appreciated.

[turboped]

You're proving a point, "they're up they work". Are they safe? who knows, not you thats for sure!