My Employers Dubious 'disciplinary' Practices.

[shortpaul]

Last week I was called into a meeting where my line manager and the company's Human Resources Manager were present. Although the purpose of the meeting was not specified to me in advance, it was of a clearly disciplinary/judicial nature where allegations were put to me concerning amongst other things, the recent standard of my performance in the job.

I considered that my line manager had significant negative involvement in what had happened in relation to these allegations. However I was robbed of the opportunity of properly defending myself because of the managers presence at the meeting.

Do not the rules say that this meeting should have taken place in private, between myself and the HR manager alone, for the reason implied above?

Also, my line managers presence was totally unnecessary as he could/should have briefed the HR manager on what he considered to be the situation in advance of the meeting.

Where do you think I would stand 'legally' if such a meeting was called again and I boycotted it in order to protect my understood rights?

[Prudie]

It depends on your company policy but in general unless you've raised a grievance against them I would always expect the line manager to be present at anything concerning performance.
Why did having them there prevent you from giving your account?

[woofgang]

Well you may understand that those are your rights but you are the only one. By and large so long as the company’s policies and procedures are applied equally to everybody and they are by and large “fair” then legally you have no leg to stand on. Have you asked to see your company’s policies and procedures?
There is no “rule” that says that your line manager cannot be present, in fact I would expect the line manager to be there...not sure why it stopped you defending yourself? If you are summoned to further meetings and refuse to go then you can expect the process to happen in your absence and you will be informed of the outcome. You will be deemed to have declined to state your side of the issue.

[Peter Pedant]

OK - ya narty by - why arent you a member of a union ? they are very good on this

otherwise - CAB - they are also very good on employment issues such as you have raised

or me ( no no I am too modest .... I can't etc)

I think s6 of the current employment act says that an employer if he has a disciplinary procedure he MUST make it available to the employees

but oddly he doesnt have to have a disciplinary procedure

if it is a small employer - then he doesnt have to separate the duties of investigation, procedure, prosectuion, being a judge and jury ( coz there may to be enough people in the firm to do that )

but he DOES have to follow the rules of natural justice
making the employee aware of what he is accused of but there is NO duty to disclose a complaint letter
and he has to allow a right to reply

but nothing else in your post

your right of reply seems to be not as you wanted but that does not mean you didnt have a rt of reply

as far as I know you have no say in who is or is not present during a meeting .
if you boycotted a meeting
they could fire you
if you then sued in an employment tribunal at least one case I know of was thrown out as the employee had not followed local remedies

( that is there is a duty of an employee to follow the employers disciplinary procedures even if the employee doesnt like them - sortta kinda makes sense really )

I am retty sure you have a right to be accompanied and you should do so ( ACAS figures show much greater success rates for employees who are accompanied )

erm andthat is about it

CAB will help

[Marshwarble]

"He does have to follow the rules of natural justice."

You might mean British justice? Nature is red in tooth and claw.

[Maydup]

The meeting was an investigative meeting and not disciplinary. Its your line manager's job is to do talk to you about issues regarding performance and will have invited HR along to make notes. Sadly it cannot be delegated to HR to run the meeting.

What should happen next? If you accept that you could address the issues raised, then do so and nothing more will be said. If you think think the line manager had negative involvement ask for a follow up meeting and explain that as calmly as you can. Equally if you deny it altogether then do the same.

If you are called to an official disciplinary meeting you will get some warning and a chance to prepare your case, but again it will be conducted by the line manager. Still unhappy after that, then you can appeal to the next level up.

How are you feeling about it today?

[murraymints]

as maydup said.advance notice is given for any disciplinary meeting at which usually more than one person is present for management..you are allowed to take someone in also..advisable ..acts as witness and also can take notes in order to remind you of what has been said...

[woofgang]

murray, if a witness is involved then they generally are required to make a written statement before the meeting. The person who accompanies the defendant may be limited in what they are allowed to do and who they can be....eg may only speak if allowed to do so by whoever convenes the meeting, must be an appropriate work colleague or union rep (so not your Mum). Notes taken by anybody on either side may be required to be shared and agreed by all as a true record then everybody gets a copy...avoids argument later.

[THECORBYLOON]

WOOFGANG, folk have an entitlement to be accompanied by certain folk if it is a disciplinary meeting (as opposed to an investigatory meeting) but someone else can be there if the employer agrees to that request, so a mother COULD be at a meeting.

[woofgang]

I agree Corbyloon, but the employee only has a RIGHT to an “appropriate person"

[THECORBYLOON]

You said the person MUST be an appropriate person but I am merely pointing out that is not strictly correct.