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The World Will End, No One Will Trade With Us Blah Blah Blah
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So what is this then? Why didnt the 'experts' say this would happen?
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//Sajid Javid – who campaigned for a Remain vote – is already preparing for a hectic schedule of visits to countries across the world.//
This idiot was the main harbinger of doom in his 'Project Fear' Lying campaign. Business Minister??? I wouldn't trust him with a threepenny stamp!
Talk about back pedalling on the Marr show the day after we won the vote.
This idiot was the main harbinger of doom in his 'Project Fear' Lying campaign. Business Minister??? I wouldn't trust him with a threepenny stamp!
Talk about back pedalling on the Marr show the day after we won the vote.
Because the "experts" were only concerned with prophesying (incorrectly, it will almost certainly turn out) the downsides of Brexit. None was concerned with the many advantages, of which this is but one.
Regular readers will notice that I have largely dipped out of taking part in the Brexit questions. The reaction in some quarters of the Remain camp, from Mr Blair telling us a re-run of the vote should not be ruled out to Geldorf telling the remainers to take to the streets borders on (no, correct that) IS absurd. To suggest that voters should have a chance to rethink because the risks of leaving are only now becoming apparent is ridiculous. The risks were well laid out and if anything over emphasised during the campaign. People need to get a grip.
Regular readers will notice that I have largely dipped out of taking part in the Brexit questions. The reaction in some quarters of the Remain camp, from Mr Blair telling us a re-run of the vote should not be ruled out to Geldorf telling the remainers to take to the streets borders on (no, correct that) IS absurd. To suggest that voters should have a chance to rethink because the risks of leaving are only now becoming apparent is ridiculous. The risks were well laid out and if anything over emphasised during the campaign. People need to get a grip.
“We're still a long way away from even having a hint at what post-Brexit Britain will look like.”
Indeed we are, jim. But we won’t be any closer to knowing until the politicians invoke Article 50 and they and their scribes get down to work. The EU (quite rightly in my opinion) will not begin that work until we formally announce our departure. What I object to is the idea that our leaving is somehow conditional on us achieving a satisfactory deal. Conditions were not attached to the question asked of the electorate and it is disingenuous to now suggest that we can only leave if suitable post-Brexit terms are available. Our politicians have the job of securing the best agreement. This will probably be far better than the doomsayers think, but if it is not then so be it. We need to simply get on and do it.
Indeed we are, jim. But we won’t be any closer to knowing until the politicians invoke Article 50 and they and their scribes get down to work. The EU (quite rightly in my opinion) will not begin that work until we formally announce our departure. What I object to is the idea that our leaving is somehow conditional on us achieving a satisfactory deal. Conditions were not attached to the question asked of the electorate and it is disingenuous to now suggest that we can only leave if suitable post-Brexit terms are available. Our politicians have the job of securing the best agreement. This will probably be far better than the doomsayers think, but if it is not then so be it. We need to simply get on and do it.
Why exactly should I be enthusiastic yet? It's still not exactly a long time after the result that went against what I wanted, and it's still some way away from understanding what that means. At the same time, it's hard to look at the political fallout without being just a little concerned that we're about to lose any meaningful opposition to the Tories, who are themselves swinging in the wrong direction (from my perspective).
I mean... would *you* be brimming with optimism if the position were reversed? I find that difficult to believe, somehow.
In the long run, we can probably make Brexit work, and perhaps as well the implosion of Westminster will allow a better class of politician to emerge, although in the short term at least it seems it's just given a new lease of life to the sort of scrubby back-room double-dealings we could do without.
No, I'm not really ready to be optimistic yet. I'm not entirely surprised at your perspective on this but it hardly matters. It will take time -- as it should, really -- to get used to the result.
I mean... would *you* be brimming with optimism if the position were reversed? I find that difficult to believe, somehow.
In the long run, we can probably make Brexit work, and perhaps as well the implosion of Westminster will allow a better class of politician to emerge, although in the short term at least it seems it's just given a new lease of life to the sort of scrubby back-room double-dealings we could do without.
No, I'm not really ready to be optimistic yet. I'm not entirely surprised at your perspective on this but it hardly matters. It will take time -- as it should, really -- to get used to the result.
Wow, I had no idea Jim had that much influence!
Seriously tho, I'm not sure whether you, YMB, & other Brexiters are exhibiting blind faith or counting their chickens but as long as your prepared to lie in the bed you've made.....that's fine. No one knows how comfortable it will be. I'm sure we're all hoping it will be a smooth ride but it's by no means certain. I prefer realism to pessimism or optimism in such circs.
Seriously tho, I'm not sure whether you, YMB, & other Brexiters are exhibiting blind faith or counting their chickens but as long as your prepared to lie in the bed you've made.....that's fine. No one knows how comfortable it will be. I'm sure we're all hoping it will be a smooth ride but it's by no means certain. I prefer realism to pessimism or optimism in such circs.
It's not intentional. I'm not going to pretend that I'm nearly as attached to Britain as some on this site, but that isn't because I'm "anti-British". If you'll forgive the overly grand rhetoric, I tend to see myself as a citizen of the world rather than just any particular country. In that sense the vote in favour of leaving the EU looks -- for all that Brexit supporters try to insist otherwise -- like the UK trying to reject the world or turn away from it at least to some extent.
This isn't about doing the UK down. It's about the direction the UK is now heading. As I say, it will need time before I can get used to this -- and, more importantly, clarity about what Brexit now means. But having believed that remaining in the EU was the best decision so strongly, it's not exactly easy to let go of that. Brexit supporters ought to have a little more empathy, because if anything their feeling on defeat in the referendum would probably have been stronger -- softened, perhaps, by the expectation of a further referendum in 40 years.
So yes, I'm sad about the result, and I'm awaiting actual understanding of what the future holds before I can cheer up about it.
This isn't about doing the UK down. It's about the direction the UK is now heading. As I say, it will need time before I can get used to this -- and, more importantly, clarity about what Brexit now means. But having believed that remaining in the EU was the best decision so strongly, it's not exactly easy to let go of that. Brexit supporters ought to have a little more empathy, because if anything their feeling on defeat in the referendum would probably have been stronger -- softened, perhaps, by the expectation of a further referendum in 40 years.
So yes, I'm sad about the result, and I'm awaiting actual understanding of what the future holds before I can cheer up about it.
"Why didnt the 'experts' say this would happen? "
With probably 2 years and 2 months minimum before deals with other non-EU countries can legitimately be struck. maybe they had the sense to keep honest silence.
That is also the time period that vested interests have to inflict damage on the UK and make the final severing of EU ties unpalatable to whoever.
e.g.
http://
With probably 2 years and 2 months minimum before deals with other non-EU countries can legitimately be struck. maybe they had the sense to keep honest silence.
That is also the time period that vested interests have to inflict damage on the UK and make the final severing of EU ties unpalatable to whoever.
e.g.
http://
Jim, //I tend to see myself as a citizen of the world rather than just any particular country.//
Fine words - but since you're willing to restrict this country to the narrow enclave of European control, they make no sense whatsoever.
//In that sense the vote in favour of leaving the EU looks -- for all that Brexit supporters try to insist otherwise -- like the UK trying to reject the world or turn away from it at least to some extent.//
Brexiters aren’t rejecting the world - they’re embracing the world – all of it - and it seems that the world is reciprocating. Cheer up, Jim! There really is a whole world out there!
Fine words - but since you're willing to restrict this country to the narrow enclave of European control, they make no sense whatsoever.
//In that sense the vote in favour of leaving the EU looks -- for all that Brexit supporters try to insist otherwise -- like the UK trying to reject the world or turn away from it at least to some extent.//
Brexiters aren’t rejecting the world - they’re embracing the world – all of it - and it seems that the world is reciprocating. Cheer up, Jim! There really is a whole world out there!
“Why exactly should I be enthusiastic yet…”
Because the electorate voted to extricate our country from the car crash that the EU has become, jim. The worst, the very worst, that the EU can do is offer no deal whatsoever. That means trade would be undertaken under WTO rules. There is virtually no chance of that happening as the EU has a huge trade surplus with the UK. There is no “single market” in services and the biggest worry for many in the finance industry, the loss of the UK’s “passporting” facility enabling us to conduct euro transactions, is likely to be unfounded. Article 46 (or 47, cannot recall) of the Lisbon Treaty allows “third” countries (as the UK would become) to conduct such transactions provided their regulation regime is compliant (which the UK’s certainly is).
“In that sense the vote in favour of leaving the EU looks -- for all that Brexit supporters try to insist otherwise -- like the UK trying to reject the world or turn away from it at least to some extent.”
On the contrary, jim. It is the EU which is introvert, with its protectionist views, shackled by the need to compromise to please 28 countries. By contrast the UK will reach out to the rest of the world (population 15 times that of the EU) to countries that are growing rather than stagnating.
There is every call to be enthusiastic about the new horizons which will undoubtedly open up as the UK disentangles itself from the tentacles of the EU because almost any situation, even the very worst imaginable, in which the country may find itself will be infinitely preferable to the one we are in now. People need to lighten up, brighten up and stop believing we shall all perish if we cut Nanny EU’s apron strings. Yes it will take time but it will work and we will all be much the better for it.
Now I think I really am out of the "Brexit" debate - at least until things begin to happen.
Because the electorate voted to extricate our country from the car crash that the EU has become, jim. The worst, the very worst, that the EU can do is offer no deal whatsoever. That means trade would be undertaken under WTO rules. There is virtually no chance of that happening as the EU has a huge trade surplus with the UK. There is no “single market” in services and the biggest worry for many in the finance industry, the loss of the UK’s “passporting” facility enabling us to conduct euro transactions, is likely to be unfounded. Article 46 (or 47, cannot recall) of the Lisbon Treaty allows “third” countries (as the UK would become) to conduct such transactions provided their regulation regime is compliant (which the UK’s certainly is).
“In that sense the vote in favour of leaving the EU looks -- for all that Brexit supporters try to insist otherwise -- like the UK trying to reject the world or turn away from it at least to some extent.”
On the contrary, jim. It is the EU which is introvert, with its protectionist views, shackled by the need to compromise to please 28 countries. By contrast the UK will reach out to the rest of the world (population 15 times that of the EU) to countries that are growing rather than stagnating.
There is every call to be enthusiastic about the new horizons which will undoubtedly open up as the UK disentangles itself from the tentacles of the EU because almost any situation, even the very worst imaginable, in which the country may find itself will be infinitely preferable to the one we are in now. People need to lighten up, brighten up and stop believing we shall all perish if we cut Nanny EU’s apron strings. Yes it will take time but it will work and we will all be much the better for it.
Now I think I really am out of the "Brexit" debate - at least until things begin to happen.
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