Genealogy Query

[DSJ]

There used to be a very helpful lady, Dot, on this site. She would search for lost family members of ABers who had been unable to find them on either of the main internet genealogy sites. Is she still around?

I have a query. An ancestor of my husband, James Gibb, was born on 20th July, 1848, in East Grinstead. The registrar incorrectly entered the surname as Gibbs on the certificate. His father's name was William.

We next have a record of him marrying Lucy Heasman Todman, aged 21, in September, 1885. He was a widower & gave his age as 32 although he was actually 37. The marriage took place in Kennington, Surrey.

I have tried for some time to find a marriage between James and his first wife but with no luck. We do not know her name but she may have come from Essex.

Can anyone please help me?

[Old_Geezer]

There is a genealogy forum under the history one.

If you don't get a response here maybe ask there ?

[DSJ]

Thank you. I hadn't realised that. I find the new format here rather confusing.

[CrapAtCryptics]

i dont currently have a full Ancestry subscription - have you come across a Sarah Estha Beckett in your searches?

[DSJ]

No l haven't. Who is she?

[Rose Maybud]

I'm finding this one tricky too. It's similar to a case I was working on for a friend - I never found the 'first' marriage and admit defeat on that one. Could be he never actually married the lady. Perhaps she was already married. Perhaps it all happened abroad. Perhaps he wasn't widowed and it was a bigamous marriage. Interesting snippet from this previous case was in the 1939 Register he described himself as widowed when he wasn't, and I wonder if this was a device to avoid awkward questions.
And his birth - looks like you have the certificate because you specify the exact date - may I just check the rest of the info - place of birth, parents names, occupations, informant etc? In working around this one, looks like the place of Lingfield, Surrey was in the registration district of East Grinstead, Sussex, which is all set to confuse.

I have found a candidate for the first marriage, but the father's name was James and not William. I was going round in circles big time last night! I kept coming across various members of the Bonwick family - is that a name you know?

May I be extremely picky for the moment and ask where your information comes from?
I have found the online transcription of James' marriage to Lucy Todman - do you have the certificate? I have known the father's name transcribed wrongly, although it's clear enough on the image. Even so, there are no rules as to what goes into the father's name and occupation boxes and it could be a father figure, and not the biological father.

I'll have another go this evening and create a tree on Ancestry for the purpose. Sometimes the hints throw up something I miss, and it's easier to see what other researchers have done, be it right or wrong...

[Rose Maybud]

I think I have it now...

James' first marriage was to Sarah Ann Archer, She was born 1855 Felsted (Dunmow RD)Essex. You were correct as to her origins :)
The marriage was 8 December 1878 at Emmanuel Church, Camberwell. Both single and otp. James was a grocer's porter. His surname down as Gibbs, but no surprise there. He was knocking some years off his age even then - said he was 24. Looks better against Sarah's 23 years? The image is on Ancestry. As to his father's name, could read anything you want, but has been transcribed as William. Sarah's father was James Archer. Witnesses were one of the Gibb family - could read James, could read Fanny (the writing is that terrible)and a George Burgess. James has signed his name clearly as Gibb.

In 1881 they were at 37 Swan Street, Newington, with baby Hannah Annie, 2 months old. Sad to report, Hannah died in the September Quarter 1881. Sarah Ann died in the June Quarter 1882.

Over to you now, do please check all this...

Sarah Esther Beckett, by the way, married a James Gibb with a father of William Gibb in 1854 at Deptford St Nicholas. A little early for what you want, but otherwise a good candidate.

[DSJ]

Thank you so much Rose Maybud for your help.

I used to subscribe to the findmypast website but discontinued my membership when I had completed my research into our family trees after many years. I have copious notes and a large collection of birth, marriage & death certificates. I have also got notes from another family member, now deceased, who had also done some research into the Gibb side of our family.

Out of the blue, I have recently received a letter from another very elderly Gibb family member asking for information on James Gibb's first marriage. Without access to a genealogy website, I asked for help here.

I have James Gibb's birth certificate. His father was definitely William (a name used in subsequent generations) & his mother was Ann Gibb, formerly Thorpe. He was born on 20th July, 1848, in East Grinstead.

The surname Bonwick doesn't ring any bells.

I will now be able to write back to the family member who is asking for the information. I can't tell you how very grateful I am. Thank you. JG

[jno]

DSJ, you may well find your local library has subscriptions to sites like Find My Past.

[DSJ]

Thank you jno, I will investigate.

Meanwhile, Rose Maybud, may I ask one last favour of you? I think I will apply for the marriage certificate of James Gibb & Sarah Ann Archer, the birth certificate of their baby Hannah Annie, & the death certificates of Sarah Ann and Hannah Annie Gibb. Will you please let me have the reference numbers for these? I think I'll need the quarter & page number.

[Rose Maybud]

Happy to have helped.

The marriage reference - Dec 1878 Camberwell Volume 1d Page 1096, although, as I mentioned before, the image is on Ancestry. Whether the GRO copy would be any more legible, who knows...

Hannah Annie's birth - Mar 1881 St Saviour Southwark Volume 1d Page 112. And her death - Sep 1881 St Saviour Southwark Volume 1d Page 68.

Sarah Ann's death - Jun 1882 St Saviour Southwark Volume 1d Page 57.

There's always FreeBMD to check GRO reference numbers without the need for a subscription; and the GRO itself has a searchable index for births and deaths now. The search algorithm isn't as powerful as, say, Ancestry or FMP, but does give you the mother's maiden name for births dating from 1837 as you get post 1911; and the age at death from 1837 similar to post 18-whatever-it-is. You'll need to log on to order certificates anyway and you can just click on the search option after that. Once you've chosen the entry, the site has made it simple to add it to your total order.

Good luck!

[DSJ]

You have been absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much for all your help.

[Rose Maybud]

Do let us know why little Hannah Annie died, and why Sarah died too. I have looked for a further birth but not found one, so perhaps she miscarried. Such a sad story. All too common.

[DSJ]

When I have the certificates, I'll get back to you.

[DSJ]

Rose Maybud, I have the certificates now.

Baby Hannah Annie died at home on 18th September, 1881, from Perlussis. I don't know what that is so will have to look it up.

Her mother, Sarah Ann Gibb, died on 5th April, 1882, at home. The cause of death is given as 'Suddenly on the bursting of a blood vessel'.

I have also received little Hannah's birth certificate and am still waiting for a marriage certificate for James and Sarah Ann.

My husband's grandfather, who was killed in WW1, was the son of James and his second wife, Lucy.

[emeritus]

It will be Pertussis = Whooping Cough ?

[DSJ]

The registrar has clearly written 'perlussis' on the certificate but I see that it should have read 'pertussis' which is indeed whooping cough. Poor little baby.

[Rose Maybud]

Thanks, DSJ. Might have seemed a bit morbid to ask, but ever since getting a death certificate dated 1851 for a 4 month old where the cause of death was 'diffuse inflammation of the whole body after vaccination', it helps you learn what parents of the time faced. (This 1851 vaccination was against smallpox).
Little Hannah stood virtually no chance because the whooping cough bacterium wasn't identified until 1906. Poor soul.
Sarah Ann's burst blood vessel is more of a mystery - must have been one of the big arteries, so wonder what caused that. So sad.

Thanks again!