More 'sour Grapes' And Bull****?

[EDDIE51]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/15/britain-set-to-lose-eu-crown-jewels

[Khandro]

We didn't join the "EU", we joined European Economic Community.

[Garaman]

Oh well spotted, Khandro!

[New Judge]

“NJ, are they the same words you wrote when supporting our venture to join the EU?”

I never supported our venture to join the EU. Nobody did. We were taken in without a referendum. I voted to remain in the EEC (aka “The Common Market”) in 1975. But I was young, gullible and naïve. I never envisaged our sovereignty being forfeited by a succession of politicians. Further than that, once President Charles de Gaulle had lifted his opposition to our membership, joining the EEC was quite easy; we simply had to sign a couple of bits of paper (and forty year’s worth of post-dated cheques).

[Garaman]

NJ, you say that you were 'young, gullible and naïve' and some might say that you are still two of those reading your long post. You say that nobody has done this before, and then draw analogy with attempts to land on the moon. Now, if you don't know, have a look how many failed attempts there were before there was a successful landing on the moon.

[Togo]

^^ He doesn't know. Apollo 1 was the only failure before 6 successful landing of men on the Moon. Apollo 1 did not fly. The crew were killed in a launch pad fire during testing. Didn't deter the other brave pioneers though. Unlike our hand wringers and complainers, they were determined to succeed rather than wallow in angst and self pity.

[Garaman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_the_Moon

[New Judge]

My analogy was not to draw comparisons with attempts to land on the moon. It was an attempt to demonstrate that you don’t decline to do something simply because it’s difficult. This is what Eddie seems to be suggesting.

[Garaman]

NJ, an apology - my post was meant to be challenging, but not rude, but it was rude.

I agree, you don't decline just because it is difficult. On the other hand you don't go gung-ho into something if you suspect it will be difficult. I have no qualms with leaving, but I do with the manner some are suggesting

[Togo]

Incidentally not all the citizens of the US were in favour of the resources and effort put into the Apollo and other moon missions. But they never stooped so low as to attempt to sabotage or thwart them. Meanwhile back on planet Earth......

[Garaman]

I agree, Togo, everyone should be 100 per cent behind the project exactly as they were when we were in the EU.

[Garaman]

'We are still in the EU' (Khando that's for you to insert.)

[Togo]

@18:17 Garaman.... we were. Until the scales fell from our eyes and it started to emerge just what a corrupt (morally and fiscally) set up it was in reality. Pyramid scheme in all but name.

[Garaman]

You might have been, Togo, but some have been campaigning to get us out all the time we have been in. Others have been unwilling to accept measures all along, which isn't far removed from some Remainers not wanting to accept some leaving conditions.

[Garaman]

... and in any case, Togo, I don't want to thwart the launch, I just want to ensure a safe landing.

[Jackdaw33]

NJ, you are wrong about De Gaulle. He never lifted his opposition to us joining. He resigned in a flounce in 1969 after he did not get his own way in a French referendum over a matter which was nothing to do with the EEC. Thereafter he had no influence and Pompidou duly swallowed the bait.

[cassa333]

I thought I had given a short And to the point answer to the question. The city must work harder. There you go.

It was impossible to reform the EU. Proved by Cameron, so leaving was the only option if you valued your sovereignty, fiscal wellbeing etc etc etc.

Moaning, winging and handwringing over every item that isn't instant good news is, well pathetic really.

[New Judge]

No apology necessary, Garaman. All part of the cut and thrust, etc. and I took no offence. But apology gracefully accepted if you feel it was necessary.

Thanks for the correction, jackdaw. It was all soooo long ago!

[Khandro]

So chaps, lets all work together and make it a great success!

[RobNorth]

Presumably all the remoaners are now busy investing their money and pension plans in the Euro and all of those 27 countries whose probity is not in doubt....?

[Davemano]

This sounds much like, Here we go again, clutching onto a press report which may add credibility to their argument. We are leaving the EU and this just wants leaving to those doing the arranging. Over and out.