i predict a riot

[keirah]

what are your views about the posible breakdown in the fabric of society due to us being swamped by migrants from various other countries?

[ayrforce1]

The problems of Southern England are not reflective on the whole of the UK. The localised population of southern England probably cannot afford to work for the minimum wage. Wages in this country need be comparitive to the cost of living, with energy prices effecting everyone the minimum wage is woeful. Workers are coming to this country for a higher wage than they get back home but many of them do not have the overheads that the established population have , council tax for example, and the other costs which support the fabric of this country. In the construction industry many of the immigrant workers are being paid the minimum wage, undercutting the wage structure of the local workforce. Most of the local workforce have overheads such as mortgages and council taxes but many of the immigrant workforce are sending their money home and contributing little to the financial structure localy or nationaly. The shortage of skilled workers in the south is not reflective of the country as a whole and many people in other areas depend on low paid wages just to get by, in the long run they will end up on benefits and guess who will finance that.

[kev100]

noxlumos I wouldn't wipe my a*s* on the daily mail but there is a time to start looking at reality and that time for us is long overdue.

Why the hell should I have to forgoe my retirement after 50 years of working to keep people who have contributed nothing

[JudgeJ]

Well, jake, the doctors and shop workers can come from people educated and trained in Britain. Pension schemes have always been heavily dependant on income from investments. (They have not, of course, always been hammered by an �8bn annual snatch by the Exchequer).

In all this debate nobody has satisfactorily explained to me why it is necessary to import people to this country to work when we have one million people unemployed, who are described as �Jobseekers�. If they don�t have the right skills that itself is a sad indictment of the country�s �marvellous� education system, and the answer is to train them to do something useful.

This country managed perfectly well before the sort of mass immigration that we see now. It managed because people were encouraged to provide for themselves and were not encouraged to languish on benefits for their entire adult life.

The reason why, lightoftruth, that it is difficult to save for your own pension is because we are all being taxed to an alarming degree. Some of this revenue is being used to sustain people who, although able to, have no intention of sustaining themselves. Funding the unemployed (not just with their pocket money, but also with housing and all the other hidden benefits they receive) costs the taxpayer at least �10bn billion pounds per year � just a little more than the pensions "grab" I mentioned above.

Until this is addressed NOBODY will convince me that it is necessary to import labour to this country. The question I pose is quite straightforward: if there are so many jobs vacant why are not the unemployed being used to fill them? If there are not the vacancies, why are we being asked to believe we need to bring people in to the country? I think I�ll say no more on this topic.

[noxlumos]

My aplogies Kev, it seems you don't need the Daily Mail's encouragement to be a racist, you've managed it all on your own.My question was why did you feel the need to use the word "WHITE"? Can I take it from that if we were suddely "over run" as you people ike to put it by say French people or the Dutch you wouldn't mind as long as they are the same clour as you? My guess is that you in fact don't like anyone who isn't British irrespective of race, but you made a blatantly racist comment by including the colour of a person's skin and I'd like you to explain to me why. Thank you.

[JudgeJ]

Perhaps he's just a racist or a bigot or both, nox. Nonetheless such people need a voice and if it transpires that theirs is the majority view, their wishes should be respected and carried out by the government of the day. That's democracy for you - but it is unfortunately not we have in operation in this country.

[noxlumos]

Okay judge then suppose hypothetically that the majority of those racist bigots wanted to take it a stage further and re-introduce slavery for example. Would that still be ok because the majority wanted to do it? With freedom comes responsibility and it's everyone's duty to ensure, irrespective of their own personal feelings on such matters, that we don't return to the dark ages of discrimination and race hate on a grand scale. What's right is not always popular and my God this place is living proof that what's popular is not always right.

[noxlumos]

Fender the reason that I branded Kev a racist is that he referred to someone's skin colour. That's what a racist is, someone who discriminates against someone because of their race.If he didn't want to be called a racist he shouldn't make racist remarks, it's simple as that.

[JudgeJ]

I can appreciate your stance on the need to distinguish between what is right and what is popular, noxlumus.

So it seems we can have things that are popular and �right� but not those which are popular and �wrong�. I see one ever so tiny snag with this laudable approach. Just who decides into which category individual issues fit (including the extreme example you quoted)?

Silly question � obviously since you are among those that �know� what is right, it will be limited to you and other like-minded people, I suppose. Oh well, bang goes the voting rights of the rest of us because we are obviously not to be trusted to exercise our freedoms responsibly!

[anotheoldgit]

this topic certainly disturbed a hornets nest. All these words ( Nazi, Racist, Bigot etc). that are banded about in the attempt to curtail honest debate and to pigeon hole anyone that disagrees with this Goverment's immigration policy, are just words, and should not be used to stifle free speach, that was once enjoyed by the citizens of this once great country. In my Town even the immigrants are protesting because other ethnic groups of people are swamping their areas. But they are listened to and the authorities have promised not to move anymore immigrants into their area, no question of being racist etc in this instance.
There is one way that we can put a stop to this flood of immigrants , and that is to re-introduce National Service. You would not get many of these immigrants coming into this country then.

[cardiacbleed]

old git the reason racist, bigot and nazi come up in this type of debate is that there are some people who can't differentiate between colour and immigrant. this just inflames the "us and them" mentality which is entirely unhelpful., i'm not sure NS will help in all honesty

I agree we can't be the safe haven for the entire world, i agree we only have so much space in this country and only so many resources, i agree some people come to this country to abuse our proud heritage of being decent, people who protect the innocent....but there is too much of this isolationist, i'm alright jack society, for example if someone bangs on your door, out of breath, saying they've been attacked and chased

a) do you let them in and call the police
b) slam the door and say not my problem?

or are the two examples above to black and white (no pun intended) do you actually listen to the person, make an assessment of their story (not colour), make conditions on them seeking refuge, for example they leave when the danger is gone, call in the next door neighbours for assistance (in the context of a country, our European neighbours, ohh we don't like them either do we? bloody frogs and gerries, or indeed in a real sense our actual neighbours most people don't know their next door neighbours that well, another example of this suspicious of everyone attitude, they might be a peado!)

[cardiacbleed]

don't advocate us losing our reputation over a poorly run system, you just can't have a sensible debate in my opinion if you place the blame solely at the immigrants, there is a big picture here, government, international debate and structuring on the treatment of refugees and also foreign policy, such as not bombing the hell out of a coubntry and then wondering why they people who live there want to come and live where you do..

sure some will try and abuse the system but we are in a very rich economy, we don't have adequate schools, health care or enough housing this is not the immigrants fault they are not the cause, blame the politicians! all of them, bloody useless the lot of them! any of them that use the race card only do so because they are unwilling to address the difficult problems, it's easier to point just like hitler did and say "it's their fault" get rid of them and all will be well with the world

[noxlumos]

so judge instead of your usual ill thought out mud slinging would you like to answer the question I put to you? If the majority of Bristish people wanted it, because this is a democracy and the will of the mob will prevail, is it ok in your book to re-introduce slavery? Simple enough question I'd have thought?

[mimififi]

I'm not sure that 'slavery' hasn't been re introduced here. We harp on about immigrants coming in and 'spongin' off us, yet I'm sure there is a reality that suggests they live on the minimum wage, in poor housing doing jobs in conditions that we wouldn't wish on our worse enemey purely because it's preferable to being persecuted and pillaged in their original country.

We may well be stretched at the seams, but as long as people in true danger keep coming to our shores, I think we should help.

Of people who have much, much is required.