Gaming8 mins ago
In What Way Does This Fall Short Of Expectations?
I cannot see what the problem is.
The only thing I can see really is what about family members who live in another country. Personally I think it should extend only to spouses and dependant children living in the country of origin. Otherwise we will have every hanger on wheeling their way here.
As far as I am aware (although admittedly not legally minded) don't people have to abide by the laws of the land they reside in? So armholes to the EU wanting jurisdiction over the UK residents.
The only thing I can see really is what about family members who live in another country. Personally I think it should extend only to spouses and dependant children living in the country of origin. Otherwise we will have every hanger on wheeling their way here.
As far as I am aware (although admittedly not legally minded) don't people have to abide by the laws of the land they reside in? So armholes to the EU wanting jurisdiction over the UK residents.
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"As stated, it is only as lengthy and complex as folk choose to make it."
That's not what you stated at all. You stated it didn't have to be lengthy or complex. It's already lengthy and complex and was always going to be. Anyone who voted thinking it would be anything else was either deluded, or misinformed.
That's not what you stated at all. You stated it didn't have to be lengthy or complex. It's already lengthy and complex and was always going to be. Anyone who voted thinking it would be anything else was either deluded, or misinformed.
It's the same thing. "it didn't have to be lengthy or complex" = "it is only as lengthy and complex as folk choose to make it." It's a choice thing, it need not be that way. If those involved in negotiating how things work after Brexit were being reasonable and not doing down everything they can, no matter how it makes them look, it'd progress just fine. The negotiations are an extra anyway.
'People' (i.e. Politicians and EU officials, lawyers, judges etc) were always going to make this complex because.....it is. Anyone who thought disentangling ourselves from the EU, with a government made up of a majority of remainers and an EU who has Germany as the whip-hand, combined with Eurocrats who hold nothing but contempt for us, since 'we' made the vote to leave, is/was delusional and Miss informed.
We haven't scratched the surface yet.
We haven't scratched the surface yet.
JUST because something may be complex or expensive does NOT mean it shouldn't be done. If that were the case we wouldn't have space exploration or new medicines.
My father came to the UK when he was about 20 I think. He voted leave because he understands what control, sovereignty, self rule and any of the other 'Brexit' reasons mean.
But anyone who has been in the country legally for any length of time who harbours the thought that they will suddenly be frogmarched out of the country is, in my humble opinion, being a little dense.
What we have to remember is we are negotiating with an organisation that has so many jobs worthy and has so much to loose they are scared s/less. They neither want to loose face or control.
My father came to the UK when he was about 20 I think. He voted leave because he understands what control, sovereignty, self rule and any of the other 'Brexit' reasons mean.
But anyone who has been in the country legally for any length of time who harbours the thought that they will suddenly be frogmarched out of the country is, in my humble opinion, being a little dense.
What we have to remember is we are negotiating with an organisation that has so many jobs worthy and has so much to loose they are scared s/less. They neither want to loose face or control.
We need to see the full details on Monday, but on the face of it does not match the EU offer made on the 12th June which is a good deal for British expats...
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This EU offer does not seem to have been widely reported in the UK press.
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As I'm sure NJ is well aware, there are UK judges in the ECJ (EJEU)
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This EU offer does not seem to have been widely reported in the UK press.
https:/
As I'm sure NJ is well aware, there are UK judges in the ECJ (EJEU)
https:/
Why is the fact that there are one or two UK judges operating in the ECJ make it any more worthy? The issue is not who sits in it but that is administering legislation that has not originated in the UK Parliament and is thus outside the control of the UK electorate.
I cannot imagine any other nation agreeing to an idea that people living within their boundaries should be subject to anything other than their own domestic laws. The EU seems to believe that because citizens of its remaining 27 member nations choose to live in the UK that EU law in certain disputes must prevail. This is one of the principle reasons why I (and 17m others) voted to leave. People who have chosen to live in the UK but who want the protection of EU courts should be told that no such protection will exist and that any disputes will be resolved by the UK courts.
Having read the EU proposals I have to say that as far as “citizenship” issues go, it simply reiterates the current position (with the UK as an EU member) and makes no recognition of the UK being a non-member at all. It simply seeks a continuation of existing rights. I largely (though not completely) have no problem with that as I never expected (or wanted) people who had settled here legally and in Good Faith to suffer any threat or discrimination. But this is what I take issue with:
“The Commission should have full powers for the monitoring and the Court of Justice of the European Union should have full jurisdiction corresponding to the duration of the protection of citizen's rights in the Withdrawal agreement. Citizens should thus be able to enforce their rights granted by the Withdrawal Agreement in accordance with the same ordinary rules as set out in the Union Treaties on cooperation between national courts and the Court of Justice…”
One of the principle reasons for leaving is to enable the UK to rid itself of the jurisdiction of a foreign court. Granting EU citizens rights to remain in the UK is one thing but allowing disputes over those rights to be settled elsewhere is quite another.
I cannot imagine any other nation agreeing to an idea that people living within their boundaries should be subject to anything other than their own domestic laws. The EU seems to believe that because citizens of its remaining 27 member nations choose to live in the UK that EU law in certain disputes must prevail. This is one of the principle reasons why I (and 17m others) voted to leave. People who have chosen to live in the UK but who want the protection of EU courts should be told that no such protection will exist and that any disputes will be resolved by the UK courts.
Having read the EU proposals I have to say that as far as “citizenship” issues go, it simply reiterates the current position (with the UK as an EU member) and makes no recognition of the UK being a non-member at all. It simply seeks a continuation of existing rights. I largely (though not completely) have no problem with that as I never expected (or wanted) people who had settled here legally and in Good Faith to suffer any threat or discrimination. But this is what I take issue with:
“The Commission should have full powers for the monitoring and the Court of Justice of the European Union should have full jurisdiction corresponding to the duration of the protection of citizen's rights in the Withdrawal agreement. Citizens should thus be able to enforce their rights granted by the Withdrawal Agreement in accordance with the same ordinary rules as set out in the Union Treaties on cooperation between national courts and the Court of Justice…”
One of the principle reasons for leaving is to enable the UK to rid itself of the jurisdiction of a foreign court. Granting EU citizens rights to remain in the UK is one thing but allowing disputes over those rights to be settled elsewhere is quite another.
Odds on. And that also suits me fine - provided the UK team is simply prepared to walk away. The trouble is there is constant harping from the Remoaners that we'd be destitute within a week should that happen. They are wrong (just as they were wrong when predicting the immediate post-referendum effects) but we live in times where everybody is afraid of upsetting anybody.
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