Money Dispute With A Friend

[mike-w]

I have a money dispute with a friend, there has been no hostility at all between us over this, we just can’t agree on the amount I should pay her. I accidentally caused a breakage to an antique ornament in her home which she values at £3500, yest through the research I’ve done it looks closer to £2000. She didn’t have this insured individually on her home insurance and she has found that the maximum she can claim is £1500 and that is where the dispute has come about.

She is asking £2000 from me which together with the £1500 she can claim from her insurance makes up her value of £3500. Where I only offered £500 which would make up the value to what I feel is £2000. We have tried to meet somewhere in between but are still well apart on an agreed amount. I don’t want to fall out with her and she feels the same, though so far there is no hint of that at all.

She says that if we can’t agree on an amount, she may have to take this through the small claims court to settle it. She says that a small claims court is very informal with no lawyers involved so there is very little cost. She says that a judge would give a verdict on the amount owed and as long as the amount awarded is paid, that is the end of it.

If we can’t agree (and it doesn’t look like we will), I don’t have any really objection to her taking this through a small claims court if it is like she says, though the one thing I would want to avoid is having a CCJ against me name. She says that will not happen as long as I pay within 30 days of a judgment being given.

I’ve no experience of going to court over anything and I’ve always thought of court disputes being rather bitter and hostile between the two parties, but perhaps this is not always the case and just a matter of settling a dispute.

Is she correct in saying that I will not end up with a CCJ against me as long as I pay the amount awarded within 30 days and is there anything else that could go against me once a judgment is given?

[Smowball]

Mike I haven’t read all the latest posts but let’s just assume your friend is mistaken on the value of this vase. You cannot pay her all the money purely on what she thinks it’s worth - you need an independent valuation. It might only be worth £50

[mike-w]

Snowball, I'll be speaking to her next week about it, I think she is mistaken about the value, and if we can get some independent valuations she will then hopefully realise this.

[joko]

i'm a bit surprised at the people saying you dont have to pay her anything - if you came into my house and broke something, accident or not, i would expect you to pay to put it right!
It being an accident doesn't mean you have no responsibilty, you cant just shrug and say 'oops'
why should i lose my possession and lose the money it cost me because of your accidents?
'but for your actions' i would still have my item intact - so it is your fault.
just because its a decorative item and therefore she doesnt 'have' to buy a new one, is irrelevant - what if it was a necessary item you had broken? - like her kettle or TV, or couch - something she will need to replace? why should it cost her twice? she's already paid once.
Accidents dont mean you get away scot free, they just mean you didnt intend to cause damage - you are still responsible.
try saying 'oops it was an accident' if you break something in a shop, or damage someone elses car in a crash etc - the court wont just say ' aw well he didnt mean to, lets just let him off eh?' - they will make you pay for the damages.

also the people saying shes not a real friend for expecting you to pay - well i'd say the same thing back - what kind of friend goes into someone elses home, breaks something then just expects not to pay, simply because they don't want to? what kind of friend does that make you? you should 'want' to put things right for your friend!

[Mamyalynne]

I guess we all view things differently, for my own part if a guest caused some damage I'd claim on my insurance - if I thought all such accidents should be paid for I would deter visitors and keep the door closed.

Hope you get it sorted Mike.

[kvalidir]

Firstly you need to ascertain how much it really is worth- not your guess or her guess, so three independent valuations. Auction prices are usually ( but not always) below retail antique prices so you might find that it's actually worth more than £3.5k, but fashions in antiques change like everything else, so may equally have depreciated some but don't bank on that.
You have offered to pay for it, so you have admitted liability, just pay what the valuation is and be done, it's morally the right thing to do and I would pay for anything I damaged in someone else's house. I even paid my father when I broke something once in his house, it's just the decent thing to do if you damage something.

[hc4361]

I'd agree with you if it wasn't an accident and was a deliberate action, joko.
It is my responsibility to ensure the goods in my home are safe and secure, well positioned so that they can't be damaged accidentally.
It is my responsibility to ensure my goods are properly insured so I can claim if an accident does happen.

Should anything in my home accidentally fall on top of a visitor and cause injury (for example, tv topples on top of child) I would rightly be responsible if I haven't taken due care to prevent such an accident, even if the child pulls it on top of himself.

My treasured possessions are kept safely out of reach.

Some shops display signs warning that breakages must be paid for. That cannot and will not be enforced in a court of law unless the shopkeeper can show that he did all that he could to ensure accidents didn't happen AND that the person involved didn't take reasonable care. If a sober person stumbles in to a display of china and smashes the lot he is not responsible.

[mike-w]

Joko, you have clearly not read properly what I have said. You say at the end or your post “what kind of friend does that make you? You should 'want' to put things right for your friend!”

I am not disputing that I should pay my friend for the accidental damage I caused, I have said that I am quite willing to pay her whether I am legally liable or not. The issue we have is just that we disagree on the value of the ornament.

Just to give some update, we have now both agreed to get some independent values, once we have them, we will see if we can come to an agreement as to how much I should pay her.

[hc4361]

You're a good pal, mike. Can't say the same for your friend.

[mike-w]

Thanks for your comments hc4361, she is not that bad, really! She was a bit upset at the time, but she has cooled off a bit now. She had inherited this ornament, though she didn't feel that sentimental about it. She knew it was valuable, but I believe she thought it had more value than it actually did. We are getting some independent valuations and I hope we will then come to an agreement on how much I'll pay her. I'll post a further update once I know some more.

[Patsy33]

You sound a thoroughly decent chap Mike. Good luck.

[mike-w]

Thanks patsy33, I really do hope we can come to an agreement and remain friends too. A search around the internet showed me that money disputes between friends are maybe more common than we might think.

They usually seem to get resolved between themselves but it often seems to be the end of the friendship. There is no hint of that happening between us so far, so I hope our friendship continues.

[Jethro77]

If she goes to Court over this she is going to have to provide a proper expert valuation in evidence. Why don`t you just reach a mutual agreement on who should do an independent valuation and agree to accept and be bound by their decision?

[Baldric]

/// what if it was a necessary item you had broken? - like her kettle or TV, or couch - something she will need to replace? why should it cost her twice? she's already paid once///

Read the thread, it was inherited by her

[mike-w]

She now realises that Jethro77, we are getting some valuations which we have both agreed to go by, so hopefully this will soon be resolved.