My Son Is Stopping Me Seeing His Children

[chelsea_girl]

My 22 year old son has left home and set up home with his partner and they now have two children. I have never done them any wrong except love them. I even lent them £200 when they moved house so they could pay a deposit but I said I needed it back. They have since cut all ties, and only recently has my son been in touch when his relationship was experiencing difficulties and he led me to believe we were back on track. But since he went back to his family, he has again turned his back. What are my legal rights to seeing his two children, and also about getting my money back. The money isn’t as important as getting to see the children.

[Jackdaw33]

//What are my legal rights to seeing his two children,//

Sadly none, I'm afraid.

[Buenchico]

As Jackdaw33 indicates, grandparents have very few rights in respect of their grandchildren. After all, young people have the right to leave home at 16 and never have any contact at all with their parents from then on, if they so choose. If they then go on to have children of their own, the grandparents of those children consequently won't know (or have the right to know) that they've even got any grandchildren.

However to say that grandparents never have any rights in respect of their grandchildren isn't strictly true. When the parents of children divorce or separate, the grandparents of those children can apply to the court handling the arrangements for the future care of the children to be admitted as parties to those proceedings. Under such circumstances a court might award visitation rights to the grandparents but it's certainly not guaranteed.

That doesn't usually help though when the parents of the children haven't divorced or separated, as it's unlikely that a court would make a Child Arrangements Order in respect of a child who's living with both parents. (The appication process for a Child Arrangements Order isn't straightforward either. It's necessary to first attend a Mediation Information and Assessment Meeting before seeking permission to apply for a Child Arrangements Order, which isn't automatically granted).

[Buenchico]

Relevant links:
https://www.blasermills.co.uk/generational-love-campaigning-for-grandparents-rights/

https://www.grandparentsplus.org.uk/what-you-can-do

https://www.fathers-4-justice.org/2017/09/esther-rantzen-pain-grandparents-denied-access-grandchildren/

https://www.change.org/p/uk-parliament-automatic-contact-rights-for-grandparents

[mikey4444]

On both counts, its zero I'm afraid.

Unless you have proof that the loan was made, he can simply deny its existence.

In the case of the kids, I can't help feeling there must be more to this than meets the eye.

[EDDIE51]

I am certain here that your son's partner and her attitude to you is behind this. Unfortunately this is a VERY common situation. She is giving your son a choice between his children and partner or his parents. What is needed is a way to get her and him to see that it is not an either /or situation, but that both parties can work together to a better future than is possible with just one side. Easy to say I know, but you need to explore ways to increase communication so that it can happen. It will not be easy but it will be worth it.

[Tilly2]

Could you write a letter to them both, explaining gently how you feel about the situation?

[TWR]

Forget the Money Tilly, regards your rights, None only compassion on his behalf & from the sounds of it, he has none, he will be back but keep your purse closed, you get no thank from persons like this even if he is your son. xx

[Peter Pedant]

agree so far - none
some in the pipeline they say

and South africa was the very first country in 1925 to specifically turn gransparents right into duties (to bring up the kids in case) - saved on car costs I suppose. But that is completely irrelevant to you

[Islay]

//I am certain here that your son's partner and her attitude to you is behind this//
Eddie how do you come to this conclusion? Dangerous conclusion to jump to imo!

[Peter Pedant]

// never have any rights in respect of their grandchildren isn't strictly true//

the analysis is correct but really stretches the use of the word 'right' - if it is under discretion then it really is a "power" [ Hohfeld] - a right is where you bust into court and say "Judgie baby ya gotta do this!" - and the judge says yeah he does..... and you dont have any of them we all regret

[EDDIE51]

Islay, just read between the lines of the question and see what inference you can find . I come to my conclusion because I have had similar problems in my own family. Also I have seen it more times than I can count in other families I know.

[douglas9401]

Have you considered removing your socks, Eddie?

[Tilly2]

If you do write to them, don't mention the money.

[Islay]

OK so your a mindreader now!
Sorry but this is between the OP and her son - people to often put the blame on the DIL.
You just have well have said the OP was the cause of the problem !!

[ummmm]

Has he actually stopped you seeing them?