Should These Racist Law Students Have Been Expelled?

[sp1814]

This will adversely impact their future employment prospect, and it’s not like they were broadcasting their vile views over the college PA system.

Perhaps a warning would’ve been more appropriate?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-43966504

[youngmafbog]

The problem is context is everything. At the moment these are allegations and are subject to appeal.

So I would prefer to wait on something more concrete (either way) before joining the trial by media mob.

[sp1814]

youngmafbog

It’s past the allegation stage. Exeter University have already conducted an investigation, and made a ruling. Whilst they might appeal, they are in the same position as someone who has been taken to court and lost a case, therefore we’re in a position where we can comment.

[jim360]

I guess the main feature of this is that the Law Society's WhatsApp can be regarded as an "official" communications channel, at least in some sense. If *that's* at least part of the reasoning behind the decision then I can see where the University is coming from -- a lot more than if it was a private conversation made public.

[youngmafbog]

SP, the BBC does not use the word alleged other paper are: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5680627/Students-expelled-Exeter-racist-WhatsApp-messages.html

I would also beg to differ on your comparison with a Court. A body of people is NOT a Court.

And we are not in a position to comment as we only have one side and no context.

If these messages were sent as they are shown without any other context then the law should be bought in and these people prosecuted.

[jno]

so little information to go on, only a few random messages devoid of context, not even any numbers relating to who was punished and how. But if they didn't put smiley faces at the end of the messages, they have to be taken as serious.

Personally, I'd sooner have seen the guilty parties named and shamed but left where they are. But I have no worries about their employment opportunities being affected; God forbid I should have inadvertently hired one of them as my lawyer.

[youngmafbog]

Jim, I agree the Law Society's WhatsApp can be regarded as an official communications channel and does represent them.

If these messages were put on there as pictured then the full force of the law should also be bought to bear.

But, I would like to hear from the other side to ensure the messages we have been shown are in context.

[jim360]

Yes, I think on this you and I are in broad agreement, ymb.

[vetuste_ennemi]

What are they guilty of?

Not obvious from link, but did get this:

//Vice Chancellor Professor Sir Steve Smith said there was "no place" for "unacceptable racist, sexist and bigoted behaviour". "These outcomes are subject to appeal", he added: "but they show our absolute commitment to take serious action against those whose behaviour is fundamentally at odds with the commitment to inclusivity, tolerance and respect that lies at the heart of everything we stand for."//

Sir Steve Smith, eh? Not awarded the knighthood for original thinking, was he?

SP should read Orwell's fictional descriptions, or Robert Conquest's factual ones of what can happen to societies when utopian idealogues gain control.

PS: de Tocqueville's "L'Ancien régime".

[jno]

he'd clearly have got your approval if he'd said there was a place for racist, sexist and bigoted behaviour, then.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Original thinking v platitudes.

[jno]

that's what I've just proposed, something nobody else has said before. He'd be hailed for his original thinking. "There's a place for racism, and Exeter is it!"

[vetuste_ennemi]

Sad.

[sp1814]

v_e

What about the bit where I said “Perhaps a warning would’ve been more appropriate?“

Is the Bracton Group an officially recognised University group?

[Old_Geezer]

The messages were clearly non-serious. Attempts at humour that isn't approved of. A dressing down and warning what might happen if it occurs again would be more appropriate. Expulsion is an over the top need to be seen as intolerant.

[vetuste_ennemi]

//What about the bit where I said “Perhaps a warning would’ve been more appropriate?“ //

Or perhaps fewer moral censors.

Who knows or cares what the Bracton Group is?

[kvalidir]

I think the messages ( from what can be seen which is practically nothing and not in context so hard to judge) are unpleasant and insulting to people of colour, women, Jews, Muslims etc and show a massive lack of judgement, but do these people MEAN what they typed? Almost definitely not. As Spath said there is amongst some groups, often young males, a savage form of banter, where each seeks to be deliberately more vile and unpleasant than the previous message, none of the people mean what they type however, it's literally almost a game. I don't know if this is the case here, nor do I think really it's excusable to banter in this way but I have seen it from essentially otherwise very nice nice, non racist, non sexist people who are just being for want of a better word, immature and stupid. Do they deserve to have their entire future decimated because of this, possibly not, but clearly we need to do something to discourage this savage banter somehow as it's genuinely offensive and indeed probably frightening for some people.