german shepherd puppies

[mccfluff]

my neighbour, who i have long considered an irresponsible dog owner has 3 sheps (one female two male), didn't get the female neutered and was surprised when she fell pregnant, the puppies are now 5 weeks old and he brought them out tonight (we live in terraced houses with a shared courtyard at the back) he has told us that he is selling them from next week. i'm not experienced in this but i think the pups are too young they were trying to 'suckle' my fingers and he reckons that he's weaned them already. please can someone put my mind at rest am i wrong if not is there anything i can do?

[fat rascal]

thats way too young to be weaned, i thought they would have to be 8-9 weeks?

not sure if there anything you can do about it though, what a totally irresponsible bloke.

[mccfluff]

see i thought 12 weeks but as i don't know for sure i really don't know what to do, he's a bit nasty so if i report him i know i'll have trouble but to be honest the pups welfare is mpre important to me but i don't know what to do, at the mo i think i might ring my vet int he morning and see what she suggust. i took loads of photos on my phone on the ahhh factor but really as evidence if i need it but i have to be honest i'm quite scared he isn't a nice bloke

[B00]

According to this website, its 3 weeks!!!

http://www.dogfocused.com/dog-training/weaning -and-feeding-puppies.php

I didn't quite believe it, so I checked a few, and they all say the same- 3 weeks.

[kita1]

Most breeders sell puppies around 8 weeks old by which time they have been weaned for at least three weeks and are eating puppy food eagerly. I actually bought my dog, a pedigree at 6 1/2 weeks old, as the breeder knew I was an experienced dog owner and knew what I was doing.

Even if he was selling puppies much younger I doubt if there is anything that you could do in law. The environmental health might be worth contacting, but as he only has the one litter there is very little you can do.

At least if he is showing you the puppies they must be healthy and well cared for, they are not lying in their own filth in some cage somewhere and they are getting well socialised, not like the poor puppies in puppy farms.

It may not be an ideal situation but the pups sound healthy and hopefully they will find good homes.

Like I say at least you have seen them and they are not being hidden away and then sold to a large pet outlet for a quick few pounds. I wouldn't worry.

[noxlumos]

When I was a kid my father always started selling any pups he had at 6 weeks or so, then it was the norm more or less. When I grew up and had my own dogs the general advice had changed to ideally 8 weeks or so. Although it's a little less than ideal 6 weeks won't kill them, but emotionally and in some ways physically it'd be better to wait a couple more weeks.3 weeks is ridiculously early and whoever wrote that on those websites wants shooting as although you can certainly introduce food etc by that point, pups still really need their Mum until at least 6 weeks imho.

[noxlumos]

sorry kita cross posted with you.

[mccfluff]

ok the dogs are not being looked after well, at least not from my point of view, they had poo crusted on them and smelt so bad after i touched them i had to have a shower the smell was that bad, anyway after talking to my other neighbour she is as concerned as i am so we have decided to call the rspca

[drgnrdr]

Here where I live you can not sell pups under 8 weeks old, you can give away but not sell. It is beneficial to the pup to stay with the mom until they are at least 7-8 weeks, they learn how to be a dog and learn mouthing inhibition and moving away from the sleep area to defecate, all things you want them to know before they get to you, usually 4-5 weeks is okay to wean them, their pup teeth come in that is when the mom is gonna start pushing them away because it hurts to nurse alot of times. As they start to wean mom will not consume the feces anymore, so they need to learn to move away and not live in it, potty training trouble ahead if they don't. Since this is GSD's I am outraged that this is a irresponsible breeding, there is so much info about why you should spay/neuter your pet, but throwing this stuff into the gene pool is a felony to me. IMHO if he lived next to me calling the local ASPCA is the least I would do, he better be glad he's not MY neighbor.
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P =A&S=0&C=0&A=452

[mccfluff]

thanks for all your replies, i've rung my vet this morning who has advised that whilst pups can wean FROM 3 weeks they are still dependant on their mums milk and should not be sold until 8 weeks minimum when they've been fully weaned for a couple of weeks and only then when thay've had a check up from the vet to pronounce them healthy etc, which pretty much afirms what i/you guys were thinking , i've contacted the rspca who are coming out to make a check on them. once again thank you for helping me make this decision

[kita1]

If the pups smell like that then probably the best thing for them is to be sold as soon as possible!

Sad to say but the RSPCA will probably not do anything under the present law. It might be different under the new Animal Welfare bill when it is passed.

The environmental health or your dog warden may be a better bet.

The tax man (inland revenue) might also be interested depending on how much he is selling them for, some GSD's are sold for 200-300 pounds or even more, so if he has a litter of 5 pups it adds up.

If he finds he cannot sell the pups he might be deterred from breeding again, but if he sells them (which would be better for the pups) he will probably breed again soon.

I wish I lived in America sometimes! The law in this country as regards animal welfare is terrible.

[lankeela]

My puppies start to be weaned at about 3 - 4 weeks, depending on how many there are and how much milk the bitch has. I find it is usually a gradual process, with the puppies trying to muscle in on mum's food, and she then begins to spend more time away from them, as they are starting to make her a bit uncomfortable on her teats and by scratching at her with their nails and teeth. They are usually fully weaned by 6 weeks although I always let mum have access to them, and she jumps in and out at her own choosing. I would not let a puppy go before 8 weeks, as has already been said they need to learn from the mum and this is a crucial period in their development. All this is very well when you are talking about responsible breeders, but what we are dealing with here is presumably a 'backyard breeder' who hasn't bothered to go about things the right way. Lets hope he has found that having a litter of puppies is more expensive and more difficult than he thought, and has the bitch spayed before she comes in season again.

[danapie]

TOO YOUNG! They need to be at least 8 weeks befor leaving mom. Mom still has so much more to teach them, even if they are "weaned". They ahve a lot of social skills mom is teaching them that help develop the pups. Maybe you should call animal control, seeing as he is irresponsible.
Just a heads up, for a female, its spayed, not neutered. :)

[kita1]

How did you get on? Did the RSPCA visit? Any more sign of the pups?