He Who Saves His Country Does Not...
Society & Culture6 mins ago
We Finally Know What Brexit Was All For!
80 Answers
I have the unequivocal answer from a couple of dyed in the wool Brexiters that it’s so that we can still get proper lightbulbs, decent paint stripper and weed killer.
Oh and some fluffy waffly stuff about the EU’s potential to be really really means to us at some unspecified point in the future if we remained.
No need to debate it any further everyone. It’s all clear now.
Oh and some fluffy waffly stuff about the EU’s potential to be really really means to us at some unspecified point in the future if we remained.
No need to debate it any further everyone. It’s all clear now.
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And you voted remain because ...
Scared to leave nanny's skirts?
Convinced by Project Fear?
Or maybe you actually have a relative who lines their avaricious pockets with the corrupt bunce that flows like sewage around the self-styled meritocrats of Brussels?
I can't think of any other good reason - but then I'm not trying very hard - just like you don't even give the time of day to anyone who has deviated from the one true path of European Servitude.
Do all of the previous paragraphs appear ludicrous? Probably they do to you - but it's just the mirror image of your continual rubbishing of leave voters.
You need to get over the "all leave voters are old, thick racists" stuff and accept that there were two sides to the argument - neither perfect, but neither utterly stupid either.
Scared to leave nanny's skirts?
Convinced by Project Fear?
Or maybe you actually have a relative who lines their avaricious pockets with the corrupt bunce that flows like sewage around the self-styled meritocrats of Brussels?
I can't think of any other good reason - but then I'm not trying very hard - just like you don't even give the time of day to anyone who has deviated from the one true path of European Servitude.
Do all of the previous paragraphs appear ludicrous? Probably they do to you - but it's just the mirror image of your continual rubbishing of leave voters.
You need to get over the "all leave voters are old, thick racists" stuff and accept that there were two sides to the argument - neither perfect, but neither utterly stupid either.
Where have I said leave voters are either old, thick or racist, Dave? I’ll save you some time....I haven’t.
When pressed the best they can come up with is they voted leave to be able to get stronger chemical based household goods, or some Brothers Grimm type painting of the EU as the monster hiding in the woods who may or may not descend upon the villagers and gobble them up at some mystical time in the future.
‘I can't think of any other good reason’
Mmm.
When pressed the best they can come up with is they voted leave to be able to get stronger chemical based household goods, or some Brothers Grimm type painting of the EU as the monster hiding in the woods who may or may not descend upon the villagers and gobble them up at some mystical time in the future.
‘I can't think of any other good reason’
Mmm.
I have to laugh at all the banging on about gaining independence.
Since the Tories sold off most of our public utilities to sundry foreign countries, global giants are destroying our High Streets, our ultimate weaponry can only be used with permission of Uncle Sam, and our Parliament is hog-tied by the appalling DUP, our independence in many spheres is gone for ever.
And to call the influence of the EU (of which we are part) "rule by a foreign power" is classical scaremongering.
Since the Tories sold off most of our public utilities to sundry foreign countries, global giants are destroying our High Streets, our ultimate weaponry can only be used with permission of Uncle Sam, and our Parliament is hog-tied by the appalling DUP, our independence in many spheres is gone for ever.
And to call the influence of the EU (of which we are part) "rule by a foreign power" is classical scaremongering.
No way. I’m having a great time extracting the truth, bit by painfull bit, from the leave voters. Trying to silence the opposition is a true sign of you running out of any credible argument (same with Denton, too). As your hero might say “No socks here. It truly is a great time to be alive. No socks”.
I voted leave because :
1. I have watched (with increasing disbelief) as over 40 years of personal and institutional corruption in the EU hierarchy bled the UK treasury of money - just read more or less any copy of Private Eye since 1974 for examples [it utterly baffles me that Hislop, after exposing so much of this carp, is a remainer - but that's his choice].
2. I believe that the centrist, dirigiste policies of the EU will inevitably fail - with a calamitous effect for all members - especially those bankrolling the whole edifice. We are better/safer on the outside when this happens. It might be 5 years or 10 - but it won't be as long as 20 before the ordure hits the air-conditioning in a terminal way.
3. The ever increasing control of the actions of our parliament/judiciary has become unsustainable - we had two choices - sign up for permanent vassaldom or risk it alone - I prefer the latter.
4. Project Fear alienated any remaining (sic) thoughts I might have had about voting to stay - it was ludicrous, corrupt and condescending beyond anything I've seen in my lifetime.
So - fair's fair -
Why did you vote to stay?
1. I have watched (with increasing disbelief) as over 40 years of personal and institutional corruption in the EU hierarchy bled the UK treasury of money - just read more or less any copy of Private Eye since 1974 for examples [it utterly baffles me that Hislop, after exposing so much of this carp, is a remainer - but that's his choice].
2. I believe that the centrist, dirigiste policies of the EU will inevitably fail - with a calamitous effect for all members - especially those bankrolling the whole edifice. We are better/safer on the outside when this happens. It might be 5 years or 10 - but it won't be as long as 20 before the ordure hits the air-conditioning in a terminal way.
3. The ever increasing control of the actions of our parliament/judiciary has become unsustainable - we had two choices - sign up for permanent vassaldom or risk it alone - I prefer the latter.
4. Project Fear alienated any remaining (sic) thoughts I might have had about voting to stay - it was ludicrous, corrupt and condescending beyond anything I've seen in my lifetime.
So - fair's fair -
Why did you vote to stay?
Dave, My reasons for voting to stay are well documented in the AB annals. It basically boils down to ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’. No one has been able to convince me it was ‘broke’.
I Notice you haven’t been able to back up your claims that I called people the things you accused me of? Still looking for evidence?
I Notice you haven’t been able to back up your claims that I called people the things you accused me of? Still looking for evidence?
///Project Fear alienated any remaining (sic) thoughts I might have had about voting to stay - it was ludicrous, corrupt ....///
There was no Project Fear - that's just a soundbite dreamed up by desperate Leavers bereft of any real reasons, so resort to smears. And I believe it was the Brexit campaign which has been found guilty of corrupt practices.
There was no Project Fear - that's just a soundbite dreamed up by desperate Leavers bereft of any real reasons, so resort to smears. And I believe it was the Brexit campaign which has been found guilty of corrupt practices.
1. bled the UK treasury of money. How, exactly did it do that?
2. will inevitably fail. More pie in the Sky assumptions.
3. The ever increasing control of the actions of our parliament/judiciary. How does this manifest itself?
4. Project leave are, as far as I’m aware, the only ones to have been subject to a successful prosecution. To wit:
https:/
2. will inevitably fail. More pie in the Sky assumptions.
3. The ever increasing control of the actions of our parliament/judiciary. How does this manifest itself?
4. Project leave are, as far as I’m aware, the only ones to have been subject to a successful prosecution. To wit:
https:/
Canary - did you not read the daily tide of (later proven to be false) dire economic predictions?
I shouldn't have used the convenient shorthand (I know it offends people), but it was just a laughable farrago of endless half-truths and ridiculous half-baked economic scenarios - designed to leave the impressionable with a feeling of "Ooooh that looks difficult - let's just stay in here in the warm".
It had the opposite effect one me - I did my due-diligence, rubbished the propoganda and voted with my conscience clear.
I shouldn't have used the convenient shorthand (I know it offends people), but it was just a laughable farrago of endless half-truths and ridiculous half-baked economic scenarios - designed to leave the impressionable with a feeling of "Ooooh that looks difficult - let's just stay in here in the warm".
It had the opposite effect one me - I did my due-diligence, rubbished the propoganda and voted with my conscience clear.
ZM
1. We were/are a major net contributor - as a single example from the hundreds that PE listed over the years, every corrupt motorway contract in Portugal or Ireland cost us real money - and there were plenty of those.
2. It's your view against mine (and many others who agree with me)
3. I must have been dreaming when I read this ...
https:/
4. I've dealt with in my answer to Canary
1. We were/are a major net contributor - as a single example from the hundreds that PE listed over the years, every corrupt motorway contract in Portugal or Ireland cost us real money - and there were plenty of those.
2. It's your view against mine (and many others who agree with me)
3. I must have been dreaming when I read this ...
https:/
4. I've dealt with in my answer to Canary
Well, Dave, that probably the most reasoned argument I’ve seen on here, so thanks. Very refreshing.
I’ve never claimed the situation was perfect. I’m down on record as saying I’m not a fan of the EU, per se. But my argument is, people such as yourself voted rather naively in expecting whatever system replaces the EU, to be free from such corruption. This is why I find each and every post criticising the present Govt, for whatever reason (many by leave voters) highly ironic, they being the ones we”re entrusting to run this panacea of a system. I’m familiar with the ‘well, we can vote them out’ argument but, as I’ve pointed out, there doesn’t seem to be squadrons of altruistic, clean as a whistle, Potential MPs waiting in the wings. To believe there are is delusional.
We are very prosperous and whilst the EU are a bunch of unelected, self serving, bureaucratic parasites......the system works.
Anyone trying to boil down a modern (or even ancient) political system to its constituent parts is on to a loser straight away. It’s a cliche but power corrupts. And it always will. Pretending we voted for a new world order by ridding ourselves of the EU is clearly crazy.
I’ve never claimed the situation was perfect. I’m down on record as saying I’m not a fan of the EU, per se. But my argument is, people such as yourself voted rather naively in expecting whatever system replaces the EU, to be free from such corruption. This is why I find each and every post criticising the present Govt, for whatever reason (many by leave voters) highly ironic, they being the ones we”re entrusting to run this panacea of a system. I’m familiar with the ‘well, we can vote them out’ argument but, as I’ve pointed out, there doesn’t seem to be squadrons of altruistic, clean as a whistle, Potential MPs waiting in the wings. To believe there are is delusional.
We are very prosperous and whilst the EU are a bunch of unelected, self serving, bureaucratic parasites......the system works.
Anyone trying to boil down a modern (or even ancient) political system to its constituent parts is on to a loser straight away. It’s a cliche but power corrupts. And it always will. Pretending we voted for a new world order by ridding ourselves of the EU is clearly crazy.
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