Motoring4 mins ago
Should We Continue To Do Business With This Barbaric Mediaeval Regime?
Details are emerging of Jamal Khashoggi‘s murder at the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul. It was barbaric, like something from the middle ages.
[Distressing reports follow]
// The journalist was killed minutes after he arrived at the building in Istanbul to pick up marriage paperwork on 2 October, according to US and Turkish press reports of what the officials said were audio recordings that prove he was beaten and drugged, then brutally killed and dismembered. //
//
Salah Muhammad al-Tubaigy, a Saudi military forensics official,is reportedly heard putting on headphones to listen to music as he begins to dismember the body, and encourages other people in the room to do the same.
According to Middle East Eye, Khashoggi was dragged from the office to Otaibi’s study next door, where Tubaigy began cutting up his body on a table while he was still alive. //
https:/
Should we accept Saudi Arabia our ally?
Does our acquiescence of the Saudis make us just as bad as they are?
Is trade (and money) more important than our moral duty?
[Distressing reports follow]
// The journalist was killed minutes after he arrived at the building in Istanbul to pick up marriage paperwork on 2 October, according to US and Turkish press reports of what the officials said were audio recordings that prove he was beaten and drugged, then brutally killed and dismembered. //
//
Salah Muhammad al-Tubaigy, a Saudi military forensics official,is reportedly heard putting on headphones to listen to music as he begins to dismember the body, and encourages other people in the room to do the same.
According to Middle East Eye, Khashoggi was dragged from the office to Otaibi’s study next door, where Tubaigy began cutting up his body on a table while he was still alive. //
https:/
Should we accept Saudi Arabia our ally?
Does our acquiescence of the Saudis make us just as bad as they are?
Is trade (and money) more important than our moral duty?
Answers
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It's interesting how President Trump indulged his usual mouth-in-gear-brain-in-neutral response shouting about justice and finding the culprit blah blah …
Then, as always happens, people in the White House who do actually know how politics works have whispered in his shell-like that the U.S. is in a serious difficulty - it has to on the one hand be seen to object to the murder, while on the other hand, maintain the good will of the murderers who control billions of dollars of arms deals with the U.S.
Cue Trump dialling down his noise quickly for once, and waiting while people around him who actually have brains, make it all go away.
Then, as always happens, people in the White House who do actually know how politics works have whispered in his shell-like that the U.S. is in a serious difficulty - it has to on the one hand be seen to object to the murder, while on the other hand, maintain the good will of the murderers who control billions of dollars of arms deals with the U.S.
Cue Trump dialling down his noise quickly for once, and waiting while people around him who actually have brains, make it all go away.
Blame Trump
What exactly has Trump (or the UK) got to do with this, it is between Turkey and Saudi.
And I see we are still favouring trial by media.
Anyone actually got concrete proof of what really happened?
And no I am not apologising for them I think they are a backward Nation with backward religion and the sooner they are forced back to their tents the better.
What exactly has Trump (or the UK) got to do with this, it is between Turkey and Saudi.
And I see we are still favouring trial by media.
Anyone actually got concrete proof of what really happened?
And no I am not apologising for them I think they are a backward Nation with backward religion and the sooner they are forced back to their tents the better.
Spicerack - // Why would The Donald or anyone else jump to conclusions about the murky demise of this Islamist rabble-rouser. //
Because Trump doesn't think, he just reacts, and the worst thing about someone who just reacts is that they have a mechanism to project those random unthought-through knee-jerk utterances to the world - it's called Twitter.
The combination of Trump and Twitter is rather like petrol and paper - which didn't matter a whole lot when he was a brainless ignorant loud-mouthed sexist businessman.
Now he is a brainless ignorant loud-mouthed sexist President, his nonsensical ramblings have consequences, resulting in 24/7 fire-fighting by the aides in the White House, who have, as I have said, made him dial down his nonsense for once.
The are now left with the job of seeming outraged by what is increasingly looking like a murder, while still mainting lucrative contreacts with the murderers.
Because Trump doesn't think, he just reacts, and the worst thing about someone who just reacts is that they have a mechanism to project those random unthought-through knee-jerk utterances to the world - it's called Twitter.
The combination of Trump and Twitter is rather like petrol and paper - which didn't matter a whole lot when he was a brainless ignorant loud-mouthed sexist businessman.
Now he is a brainless ignorant loud-mouthed sexist President, his nonsensical ramblings have consequences, resulting in 24/7 fire-fighting by the aides in the White House, who have, as I have said, made him dial down his nonsense for once.
The are now left with the job of seeming outraged by what is increasingly looking like a murder, while still mainting lucrative contreacts with the murderers.
Although it is amusing to see the really desperate attempts of the Far Right members of this forum to deflect criticism of their beloved Tories by implicating previous Labour Governments as well (and they may well be correct), the comparison is irrelevant as two wrongs don't make a right, and it is the Tory Party who run (I use the term loosely) the country at the moment, so they are the only ones who can act.
Of course we do have the issue of the present government being subject to the whims of the DUP who, one could argue, are also medieval and barbaric.
Of course we do have the issue of the present government being subject to the whims of the DUP who, one could argue, are also medieval and barbaric.
-- answer removed --
well trump thinks that $500 bn is reason enough to say - kill away we wont say anything
and money talks
but what you have all missed is that - trump has large personal investments in Saudia so stands to make a huge personal loss if he er stands on his principles
so stand by for more Trumped up buffoonery - I feel sorry for the sherpas ( bag carriers and secretaries ) in WHite House, Crazytown
and money talks
but what you have all missed is that - trump has large personal investments in Saudia so stands to make a huge personal loss if he er stands on his principles
so stand by for more Trumped up buffoonery - I feel sorry for the sherpas ( bag carriers and secretaries ) in WHite House, Crazytown
why has an answer been removed when we are discussing whether a journalist was chopped up alive by his fellow country men and co-religionists, and his screams recorded?
he wasnt dead when they did so apparently
on content alone the whole thread should go - shouldnt it?
Note - altho his 'watch' is said to have been synchronised with a laptop outside which carried the recording
the real truth is that the Turkish spooks had listening devices (bugs) inside the embassy
he wasnt dead when they did so apparently
on content alone the whole thread should go - shouldnt it?
Note - altho his 'watch' is said to have been synchronised with a laptop outside which carried the recording
the real truth is that the Turkish spooks had listening devices (bugs) inside the embassy
AOG - // andy-hughes
/// Now he is a brainless ignorant loud-mouthed sexist President ///
What a charmer you seem to be, then you take offence if someone just addresses you by your surname. //
As a politician, I regard President Trump as fair game, especially as he is never going to know what I, or anyone else on here, says about him.
But more to the point, I would never be so rude to him directly, such as via social media, which he would read.
And as you well know, it is not 'someone' who calls me by my surname, it is only you, and you do it entirely as a mark of disrespect because you know I will not tolerate it.
You have been publicly upbraided for it in the past , so I would suggest you leave well alone that particular aspect of your output.
/// Now he is a brainless ignorant loud-mouthed sexist President ///
What a charmer you seem to be, then you take offence if someone just addresses you by your surname. //
As a politician, I regard President Trump as fair game, especially as he is never going to know what I, or anyone else on here, says about him.
But more to the point, I would never be so rude to him directly, such as via social media, which he would read.
And as you well know, it is not 'someone' who calls me by my surname, it is only you, and you do it entirely as a mark of disrespect because you know I will not tolerate it.
You have been publicly upbraided for it in the past , so I would suggest you leave well alone that particular aspect of your output.
Is this the usual ding-dong between AOG and Andie ( bless ! or as AOG has said - the man Hughes )
or is it a discussion about whether govt agents can kill ( skripal ) or kill and dismember ( not necessarily in that order ) one of their own nationals ?
Shocking stuff - and boys if you cant play quietly then keep your hands to yourselves
or is it a discussion about whether govt agents can kill ( skripal ) or kill and dismember ( not necessarily in that order ) one of their own nationals ?
Shocking stuff - and boys if you cant play quietly then keep your hands to yourselves
Peter Pedant - // // Anyone actually got concrete proof of what really happened? //
oh god how many cases of child-murder do you have to read about before you say it is wrong ? //
Questioning the veracity of the incident as reported is not the same as suggesting that it is not an abhorrent act.
It is doing what it says - reminding all of us that as things stand, there is no proof of a murder, or even death, and questioning that is a fair point of debate - it does not point to inference that the incident has not taken place, or that if it has, it is in any way acceptable.
oh god how many cases of child-murder do you have to read about before you say it is wrong ? //
Questioning the veracity of the incident as reported is not the same as suggesting that it is not an abhorrent act.
It is doing what it says - reminding all of us that as things stand, there is no proof of a murder, or even death, and questioning that is a fair point of debate - it does not point to inference that the incident has not taken place, or that if it has, it is in any way acceptable.
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