How Can You Have A Vote In Favour Of Anything But The Status Quo?

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47050665
How does that work logically?

[Old_Geezer]

"No Deal is, and always has been, a far greater threat to the UK than the EU."

I disagree. At worst no deal leads to a period of disruption to the economy. The EU threatens our nation to be a vassal state, 'forever' tied to the control of an unelected foreign elite. That's the worst of the two. Bad enough we have a royal family without dropping us further into the mire.

Also a vote saying we wouldn't reject no deal regardless should have forced the EU to rethink their stance. I don't see why folk thinks it makes no difference.

[jim360]

I want to clarify that I meant not that "No Deal is a greater threat to the UK than the EU is a threat to the UK", but that "No Deal is a greater threat to the UK than No Deal is a threat to the EU".

Of course, you might still disagree with that, but I think your last reply was to the first (that I didn't mean, although of course I believe anyway), as opposed to the second.

Also, the EU has kept their position pretty much consistent for the last three years, almost. So, yes: voting not to rule "No Deal" out would almost certainly have changed their position not one iota.

[ToraToraTora]

OG: "The EU threatens our nation to be a vassal state" - do you know, in all of this, it still amazes me that so many are happy, willing, even determined stay so at all costs. I find that incomprehensible.

[New Judge]

I think Mrs May should save the cost of her EasyJet flight to Brussels.

EDIT: I've just looked and EasyJet don't fly to Brussels, so it saves her the bother.

The only leverage the EU realistically has is the NI backstop and my views on that are well known (if not accepted). There's no way they will shift on that. However, much as it's being pedalled, the Backstop is the least of the shortcomings of Mrs May's deal (as far as a "proper" Brexit goes). People who voted to leave voted to extract the UK from the Lisbon Treaty. They did not vote to enmesh the country in an equally obnoxious agreement which ties the UK's hands and prevents it from taking advantage of the opportunities that Brexit prevents.

[jim360]

Accepting May's deal is vassalage, for a few years at least. I don't back that deal. It is far from clear what MPs think of it, but I shouldn't be too surprised to see that in the end that deal passes. Where else can MPs go? Anything that risks No Brexit is open to cries of anti-democracy; anything that risks No Deal and the likely economic damage, on both a short- and long-term scale, is too frightening for them to face.

I hope I'm wrong, of course -- if for markedly different reasons than you -- but I think the chances that the deal, even if it doesn't actually change, gets passed after all probably rose tonight.

[jim360]

Oh, and while I'm at it: NJ is right that there's more that makes this deal rotten than the backstop. It says a lot, I would suggest, about what the ERG want that they've given up even bothering to complain about this part.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Did anybody watch "Inside Europe: 10 Years of Turmoil" last night.

Good to see panjandrums Van Rompuy, Tusk and Juncker, wasn't it?

To their credit the gauleiters had a far more honest understanding of what "Out" meant than the majority of MPs who voted for the referendum and, subsequently, Article 50.

PS: (to those who saw it) how many times was the word "deal" mentioned in the programme?

[ToraToraTora]

jim: "Accepting May's deal is vassalage, for a few years at least." - and staying in the EU isn't?? TBH i'd rather stay in than take May's deal and have said so many times but I have also said that I prefer no deal, any initial disruption is worth it to free ourselves from the afore mentioned vassalage.

[Old_Geezer]

If desiring a deal in one's favour the tactic is usually to stay consistent until it's clear one's bluff is called. Of course those who think the EU elite don't give a monkey's for the individual EU member states will likely voice the opinion that they don't bluff because they don't care.

Overall the member states of remaining nations are worse off, individually less so, surely, but it still hits all/many of them. One can interpret that either way. In any case I suspect the UK will recover quicker than the EU as a whole as the UK doesn't suddenly have a budget drop on top of the economic issues to be managed.

That said I don't believe trading outside of the CU and SM is going to be the disaster some claim. Nations want to trade, traders are willing to do so. And reaching that stage will give the EU time to consider their actions/achievement.

[ichkeria]

Re the backstop it is interesting to note that the Unionist MP Isobel Lady Hermon voted in favour of Mrs May’s deal originally but opposes removing the backstop

[New Judge]

Interesting that the "No Deal" rejection vote was carried by 50.6% to 49.4%. Far slimmer margin than the referendum result. There must be calls for a re-run, surely? :-)

[jim360]

Haha :P

It probably *will* end up being rerun. Indeed, as a matter of fact it *has* to be, since this vote is... ahem, only advisory, and not binding on the government.

[naomi24]

//How does that work logically? //

It doesn't.

[CrapAtCryptics]

Corbyn - massive weapon - if brains were dynamite he wouldnt have enough to blow his hat off.