Religion and Documentaries

[Englishbird]

I'll ask your indulgence as I'm not sure where to post this.

This evening I have watched the programme on Christian fundamentalists, and a documentary with a loyalist paramilitary sitting opposite the wife and brother of a man that he, in effect, killed.

As i have stated many times, I do not believe in god and yet, as such, have been moved by both these documentaries in completely different ways. The Christian 'fundamentalists' troubled me deeply and I think it's something that every sensible person should be wary and aware of. And the documentary on the paramilitary and the family left me a bit gobsmacked. Whilst it's obvious that I cannot possibly understand any war, civil or otherwise, based on something I believe does not exist, the fact that in the name of the same god, these people can sit opposite each other and try and come to terms with what happened is a bit confusing, but ultimately has to be good.

Did anyone else see these and does anyone have any thoughts?

I will admit that I went on to drink a bottle of wine and sob 'unashamedly' at Shameless, but that's another issue .... ;o) .... must go to bed ....

[johnlambert]

Hi Englishbird, during my carreer in the Army I did 7 tours in Northern Ireland, and I can assure you that both the loyalist and republican terrorists have nothing to do with Christianity. Both sects just happen to be protestants and catholics, and use their diffrent religious upbringings as an excuse or cover for their gangland activites. Non of the paramilitarys I was in contact with set foot inside of a church to worship God or Jesus, in fact the only time they entered a place of worship was at

[johnlambert]

(sorry, pressed wrong button)

a funeral service for one of their dead gangster friends.

PS I belive in God and I'm a pratcing Christian

[jake-the-peg]

I saw both of these too but I dont think "Michael" the loyalist gunman was inspired by religion.

He said himself at Long Kesh he was deeply indoctrinated in Loyalist politics. It's much more tribal than religous.

Incidently that mysterious "intelligence" that resulted in the shooting may have had a somewhat murky origin.

A number of UDA men have confirmed receiving intelligence on IRA operatives from British army intelligence and the RUC.

[gary baldy]

The troubles in Northern Ireland transcend religion and is more to do with one section of society (who happen to be mostly Protestant) subjugating another part of society (who happen to be mostly Catholic). I am sure no one in NI would argue that the Troubles were a religious war - it is far more complicated than that and is far too difficult and serpentine a subject to discuss here.

[Englishbird]

I agree with the above, and although the man may not have been killed in the name of religion, I was getting more at the fact that religion was bringing them together. The family's religion was allowing them to come to terms with what happened to them and Archbishop Tutu had a religious context in which to try and find peace in the situation. I don't know if that would have happened if you had taken the religious context out of it.

I didn't fancy the programme when i started watching, but it drew me in.

[mullein3]

I loved the programme i watched every night..me and mr m had a arguement as we didnt agree on some things..I dont think these meetings solved a great deal and in some cases they could have made it worse in the long term as people had to face the one who killed their loved ones...so it would bring memories back..and the past cant be changed..I didnt like the first one i saw where that ex army officer was begging forgiveness for shooting marys brother ..and he knew he had made a mistake and because he had become a born again christian he wanted forgiveness, which she didnt give..."served him right"..he could have been man enough to say it was a mistake when the incident happend...instead of having a laugh about it...then when it suits him he asks for forgiveness...i am not keen on tutu sanctimoniouse springs to mind..it was good television and if its on again i will rewatch it all.. p.s i know i havnt spelt sanctimoniouse right "sorry"

[noxlumos]

I didn't see the programme unfortuneately, so can't comment on that particularly but having been born in West Belfast and living there until our house was torched then moving to South Armagh I think I can comment to some degree on sectarianism. From the cradle to the grave there are social and religious constraints that must be adhered to, to step outside of those is unwise and to fully embrace them encouraged. When I was growing up we were living in a culture of hate and fear and people who were prepared to act on our behalf were considered to be heros by many of the people.Religion is integral to that social context and is a lynch pin to the situation in the North.Johnlambert may not have seen any "gangsters" attending Mass but they do and fervantly in some cases. There are those who use sectarianism as a tool for their own wealth and those that adhere to their cause as with anything. Bobby Sands didn't do so well out of it did he? Niether did the other nine hunger strikers, they gained nothing financially whatsoever.I am not entering into the rights or wrongs of what they may or may not have done etc I am simply pointing out that johnlambert is very sweeping in his statement that all paramilitaries are gangsters, as clearly they are not, their faith in their God and their own personal belief is in some cases very strong and very important and until the churches on both sides do more than tokenly condemn things it will remain integral to the violence in the North.

[KittyGirl]

hi englishbird, im 13 and from northern ireland, i love it here and have lived here all my life, now, i havent acctually seen these programmes, but i do know one thing, and i learned it in my history lessons, and also because my teacher told the entire class, that the only reason some catholics hate protestants and vice versa is because of the english, waaaay back hundreds of years ago, as we all know martin luther king invented protestantism, king henry took it on to england and cut connections with the pope, about a couple of hundred years later another s- king, tried to enforce protestantism onto ireland, as it was an entirely catholic country. that meant, we had to obey your laws, e.g going from women having equal rights as men did to women having none, clans no longer owned land as a whole, now only one person did, this was better known as the plantation, and this is where the "troubles" began, and i will not talk about those, i was not christened protestant or catholic, and i find shame in that, i hav indeed taken on catholicism, after learning about these matters.