I'm Confused Plz Help

[spathiphyllum]

I was told that the EU is made up of unelected bureaucrats but now i'm hearing that we might get to vote in something called the 'EU parliament elections' and i'm starting to think maybe the people who said that first thing are just big fat liars, or thick as muck

[spathiphyllum]

"cabinet members are nominated by the president and approved by the Senate. The European Council, which is essentially the EU’s chief executive body, comprises the 28 member countries’ leaders, all democratically elected. Its president, Donald Tusk, is elected by those leaders rather than directly by voters"

Good article to provide to the thread Danny.

So how i see it, they are elected, and we influence that by who we vote for at council level to make people a Member of Parliament of the United Kingdom

[dannyk13]

Spath, please read the link again
. The complaint might be that not only junior EU officials, but many senior ones are appointed rather than elected

[Old_Geezer]

I'm unsurprised that you are confused. Those with power are unelected but there through patronage. Those you are voting in are there simply to turn up and vote as they are told, then go collect their salary/expenses. It's a pity those who didn't know this were allowed a referendum vote as it may have changed their opinion had they known.

[spathiphyllum]

danny that is something that "might be", what i quoted is how these people actually get into the positions they are in. And they were elected, by people we elected to elect people to have a say on that matter.

[mushroom25]

you appear to be muddling up two institutions. "EU Parliament elections" elect MEPs to the European parliament. this body does not formally possess legislative initiative (which is the prerogative of the European Commission). members of the European commission (who are not the parliament) are directly appointed, the Commissioners are proposed by the Council of the European Union, on the basis of suggestions made by the national governments, and then appointed by the European Council after the approval of the European Parliament.

the European commission are the de-facto executive of the EU, they hold the power, whereas parliament have only a limited legislative ability. and they are unelected.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/25/the-european-commission

[spathiphyllum]

OG how i see it, i was voting for uncertainty or the status quo. I was fine with the status quo as i knew what it consisted of. I voted to keep things as they were.. not to remain or leave.

[dannyk13]

Has the penny dropped yet Spath?

[spathiphyllum]

I've no idea to be honest danny

I just like the way the EU is defending Ireland's interests.. they really do look after their member states, we should join!

[spathiphyllum]

i've no idea = probally not

[Old_Geezer]

But the status quo was unacceptable so one needed to vote for change and a return of power to our nation.

Here you are, Nige will explain it to you

https://youtu.be/AZYcjVC2rRQ

Goes on a while but I reckon you can fast forward to Nige's description of an MEP's duties.

[Old_Geezer]

The EU is not defending Ireland's interests, they are telling them to risk unrest in order to keep the EU border hard.

[spathiphyllum]

When Nigel was going round in his little UKIP car me and my mates were going to put a potato in the exhaust but it was only on the street for about a hour

[spathiphyllum]

it was that or roll it over lol it was only a smart car thing, but thinking now, was probably best we went to get a potato as it stopped us from committing the vandalism

[New Judge]

//…yet brexeteers literally want to leave a union because the person who got democratically elected is one who they don't want or like//

How do you know why people who voted to leave did so?

//"The point that was being made was the leaders of the EU are not elected and cannot be removed from their posts."

And is that true?//

Yes. Not by the plebs in any case.

//This implies they're all elected fairly. If everyone wanted one of them out, they could make that happen.//

No they couldn’t. But I’m not going into the details of why not (see my final paragraph).

//we influence that by who we vote for at council level to make people a Member of Parliament of the United Kingdom//

We don’t vote for anybody at Council level. The Council is composed of national leaders. Our leader is the Prime Minister who is not elected but chosen by MPs. More than that, imagine the UK’s PM wanted Joe Soap as one of the Presidents but all the other 27 wanted Donald Tusk. How are the democratic wishes of people in the UK met? Unless you’re happy with the idea that the UK can be (and consistently is) outvoted by representatives from countries such as Malta, Luxembourg and Cyprus (combined population about the same as that of the five largest London Boroughs or that of Birmingham and Leeds combined).

//OG how i see it, i was voting for uncertainty or the status quo.//

Membership of the EU is not the “status quo” (the existing state of affairs) other than in name. The EU today is not what the EC was ten or fifteen years ago. The EU today is not what it will be in ten year’s time. There is every bit as much uncertainty being a member as not being so.

//I was fine with the status quo as i knew what it consisted of.//

From what you’ve said here, you very clearly didn’t.

//I voted to keep things as they were.. not to remain or leave.//

Then you read the ballot paper wrongly. Everybody else voted to Remain or Leave because “keeping things as they were” was not an option.

Have a read up on the EU’s Constitution. Find out how people are “appointed” to the top posts and consider whether that process is in any way democratic. Find out about the powers of the only representatives you can elect (MEPs) and see what you think of them. In particular consider how a political construction of 28 very different countries can truly function in the interests of them all. When you’ve done all that (which I’ve been doing in earnest for the last thirty years) come back and apologise to those whom you labelled “liars or thick” because as it seems at the moment you’ve no justification to do either.

[-Talbot-]

Bostin OP...absolutely bostin

[Hopkirk]

We have in the past sent our failing politicians to be EU commissioners, and they weren't elected by anyone to their positions.

I'm thinking Peter Mandelson, Chris Patten, Neil Kinnock among others.

[Peter Pedant]

// They were talking about Barnier,Tusk etc.so I would withdraw your insulting remarks.//

I wdnt - you have a point, spaff.

someone else (moi) pointed out in a daily Brexit thread ( thousands to choose from all saying the same thing over and over and over again, ). That is people were referring to unelected bureaucrats from whom we were seeking emancipation - nay liberation - nay the automatic democratic paradise that results from such things - when there were also european elections coming up

alot couldnt cope with the juncture of elections and unelected bureaucrats and just said no

even more asked - "what he on den about?"

thousands muttered - foo! ( often more than once)

and the carousel carried on ! full pelt

[Peter Pedant]

// How do you know why people who voted to leave did so? //NJ

because you keep on telling us yourself that people voted for return of sovereignty more than anything else

come on NJ if you say something - you have to stand by it
( principle of precedent or something)