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Tenancy In Common And Probate
Since a close friend lost her husband suddenly and unexpectedly, it has made me and my husband really consider our own positions. We have a will, written when our children were small, so is totally out of date, albeit valid.
We have been considering severing our joint tenancy of our house, to become tenants in common, each person's half ownership to be left in trust to our children until the second person dies. At the same time we'd incorporate all this into a new will. Currently I assume that the entry in the land registry would have both our names as joint owners, and this would have to be amended when we sort our this new ownership arrangement.
What I am a bit unsure about is, if we make a will to the above effect, does this mean that the half share of the property automatically goes into trust, or would the remaining partner have to apply for probate to enable this to happen. It is only really the property that I'm concerned about as all the money we have is in joint names, and I believe it's pretty easy to transfer the full ownership to the surviving partner.
We have been considering severing our joint tenancy of our house, to become tenants in common, each person's half ownership to be left in trust to our children until the second person dies. At the same time we'd incorporate all this into a new will. Currently I assume that the entry in the land registry would have both our names as joint owners, and this would have to be amended when we sort our this new ownership arrangement.
What I am a bit unsure about is, if we make a will to the above effect, does this mean that the half share of the property automatically goes into trust, or would the remaining partner have to apply for probate to enable this to happen. It is only really the property that I'm concerned about as all the money we have is in joint names, and I believe it's pretty easy to transfer the full ownership to the surviving partner.
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I'm not sure of the advantage. As things stand at present the surviving spouse would get the whole property wouldn't they, which wehen they die can be passed on to the children . It's definitely worth updating the will though. I've heard stories of problems when trusts were used to try to avoid care home fees or for any other reason- it can cause more problems than it solves.
a law thread and not a law in sight!
it must be AB on a normal day !
first of all you can sever a jointure ( well some legal jargon to show it is a law thread)_ by a letter or any document except - - a will.
then you pay attention to your wills
you have mentioned in passing a wills trust or settlement. The law lords commented somewhere - " a wills trust as a way of avoiding IHT has had its day" so I would scrap that
so think of what you want to do
so far it is not clear - give the survivor a life interest and then in equal parts to your grasping children- who after 20 -30 y will do their visiting to the surviving spouse with pillows and cushions in Their Arms...anyway decide whatever
then go to a wills lawyer - STEP - that is their org and not the place under which they lurk and discuss it with him.
Fee ? I paid 0.1% of my estate ( in proper moolah) as a one off for a will and rewite their script to my varying taste.
[ parents wanting wills whereby they or the survivor keep the house and then it goes in equal or defined parts to their heirs and or their heirs children is NOT rocket science for STEP practitioners]
it must be AB on a normal day !
first of all you can sever a jointure ( well some legal jargon to show it is a law thread)_ by a letter or any document except - - a will.
then you pay attention to your wills
you have mentioned in passing a wills trust or settlement. The law lords commented somewhere - " a wills trust as a way of avoiding IHT has had its day" so I would scrap that
so think of what you want to do
so far it is not clear - give the survivor a life interest and then in equal parts to your grasping children- who after 20 -30 y will do their visiting to the surviving spouse with pillows and cushions in Their Arms...anyway decide whatever
then go to a wills lawyer - STEP - that is their org and not the place under which they lurk and discuss it with him.
Fee ? I paid 0.1% of my estate ( in proper moolah) as a one off for a will and rewite their script to my varying taste.
[ parents wanting wills whereby they or the survivor keep the house and then it goes in equal or defined parts to their heirs and or their heirs children is NOT rocket science for STEP practitioners]
Wolf63 the flying kittens?? I'll post the latest on them on the thread I put them in.
The house and will. There is no doubt considering care home fees is a thought we have to admit we have had. I know if you do this when one person has illnesses that look as though they might end up I a care home can means you are pursued on the basis of deprivation of assets. if you do it while you are still fit and not even thinking it will be an issue, it may be different.
It is not something we would be doing to avoid inheritance tax since our asset is not worth enough for this to be a problem, we live in Yorkshire where property prices are not huge. Unless you live in a mansion which we don't!!
if doing it this way avoids probate it might be worth it. I know we shall have to consult a solicitor, just casting out for some views before we come to any decisions.
The house and will. There is no doubt considering care home fees is a thought we have to admit we have had. I know if you do this when one person has illnesses that look as though they might end up I a care home can means you are pursued on the basis of deprivation of assets. if you do it while you are still fit and not even thinking it will be an issue, it may be different.
It is not something we would be doing to avoid inheritance tax since our asset is not worth enough for this to be a problem, we live in Yorkshire where property prices are not huge. Unless you live in a mansion which we don't!!
if doing it this way avoids probate it might be worth it. I know we shall have to consult a solicitor, just casting out for some views before we come to any decisions.
Well the truth is we don't forsee having to pay for care. However, who knows how long we will live and how we'll be later in life. It's obvious that even if you only own half a house, some of its value would have to go for this purpose, which is fair enough, but losing the whole value of your house, that you'd worked so hard for and would have liked to leave to your kids/grandkids.
People of our age, are so lucky to have had access to good jobs, reasonably priced houses, and good pensions. Our children, and especially our grand children aren't going to be nearly so fortunate, so it would be nice to feel you can at least leave some of what you own to them. If we leave actual cash I'll feel we've died too soon.
Seriously though it is a bit of dilemma and I fully accept we are going to have to consult a solicitor. No doubt that will be a costly business as well!!
People of our age, are so lucky to have had access to good jobs, reasonably priced houses, and good pensions. Our children, and especially our grand children aren't going to be nearly so fortunate, so it would be nice to feel you can at least leave some of what you own to them. If we leave actual cash I'll feel we've died too soon.
Seriously though it is a bit of dilemma and I fully accept we are going to have to consult a solicitor. No doubt that will be a costly business as well!!
It's easy to sever the JT if you both agree - you just both file this form with the Land Registry.
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This type of arrangement is very common. It protects against care home fees for one half of the house and also protects against the survivor getting remarried and passing the asset onto new spouses family.
This isnt a deprivation of assets situation - it would be if you put the house into a life time trust. But when one owner dies, their Will regulates how their half of the property is dealt with; the survivor who is probably being assessed for care home fees has absolutely no control over that.
This will not be an expensive thing to do - it's standard stuff.
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This type of arrangement is very common. It protects against care home fees for one half of the house and also protects against the survivor getting remarried and passing the asset onto new spouses family.
This isnt a deprivation of assets situation - it would be if you put the house into a life time trust. But when one owner dies, their Will regulates how their half of the property is dealt with; the survivor who is probably being assessed for care home fees has absolutely no control over that.
This will not be an expensive thing to do - it's standard stuff.
Very useful to know. Yes it is more about the care home fees I guess, rather than the re-marrying situation. I have very mixed feelings actually about the care home situation.
First of all I hope neither of us ever has to go into a care home. I believe that when you have worked and paid your taxes all your life, you ought to be cared for in your old age/ill health. I also think children do have some responsibility to their aged/ill parents, but the reality of life these days is that this is very hard with work, and not necessarily living nearby.
At the same time, I understand that this is a very expensive thing to fund. I don't believe that we are a poor country that can't afford health and social care, we just choose to spend the money elsewhere (as a country not as individuals). Consequently our thoughts on this subject are very torn.
We are still considering all this, and we are going to have to make a decision before too long. Although we are very fit, and don't anticipate dying in the immediate future, who knows what is round the corner.
First of all I hope neither of us ever has to go into a care home. I believe that when you have worked and paid your taxes all your life, you ought to be cared for in your old age/ill health. I also think children do have some responsibility to their aged/ill parents, but the reality of life these days is that this is very hard with work, and not necessarily living nearby.
At the same time, I understand that this is a very expensive thing to fund. I don't believe that we are a poor country that can't afford health and social care, we just choose to spend the money elsewhere (as a country not as individuals). Consequently our thoughts on this subject are very torn.
We are still considering all this, and we are going to have to make a decision before too long. Although we are very fit, and don't anticipate dying in the immediate future, who knows what is round the corner.
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