The Listener Crossword 4603 - In Round Numbers By Colleague

[upsetter]

A satisfactory end to a complex puzzle but still struggling with the alternate title and parsing some of the clues whose answers we had to work out by back solving.

Thanks, Colleague.

[cluelessJoe]

Agreed, backsolving the order of the day in a few cases. Some challenging replacements but the end was both satisfying and a relief. The alternative title found - maybe not too exciting but vaguely relevant. Nevertheless a good challenge for a trying time. Thank you Colleague.

[Hagen]

Search failed to reveal this thread. Apologies for the duplicate.

I thought this was going to be another gentle one until I ground to a halt with the last few substitutions. The clues for these were little help and I had to resort to reverse engineering and guess’n’google to find the relevant sets. The final stage was unambiguous and clear. A clever puzzle but I’d had enough of it by the end.

[pushmi-pullyu]

I can see what's going on and I know what to write under the grid, but I'm a long way from completion.

[sunny-dave]

A strange one - in parts very easy, in parts darn near impossible - the divination of one or two of the required sets got rather nearer to GWIT than I care for.

That said, it was ultimately satisfying and umambiguous - so at least I can have my bedtime drop of whiskey without any niggling doubts.

Thanks, Colleague - we were due a decent work out and you provided it.

[Scorpius]

I'm afraid this gets the thumbs down from me. An hour to fill most of the grid and then several hours struggling to cold solve six of the thematic clues (all, of course, fully unchecked) and scrabbling around the Internet trying to find connections between known answers and unknown entries or known entries and unknown answers. In at least two cases the links were not the obvious ones, and I suspect one entry was a deliberate trap. There were a couple of straightforward examples, two others that could be linked without too much effort, but the rest were classic cases of GWIT, and distinctly unfair. Re Hagen's final comment, I'd had enough of it well before the end.

The Listener is supposed to be solvable without the Internet (I know of at least one puzzle that was rejected because of this house rule). I don't really see how someone without Google's search facilities could solve this unless their knowledge was encyclopaedic.

[cluelessJoe]

My first visit here for some time, so a quick mention of a brilliant puzzle to which I was alerted by a recent Magpie magazine editorial - Middle of the road by Trick. It can be downloaded from
http://aframegames.com/puzzles/MiddleOfTheRoad.pdf
.... and if you get stuck you can watch Simon Anthony solve it at
The puzzle is manageable, the endgame simply stunning .. and yes I was forced to flip to the end of Simon's video for a hint at the end. If you try it, enjoy it and I'm sure you will not regret it.

[NickorWan]

I’ve failed on this I’m afraid. I have most of the grid filled, but just not seeing some of the links. Well done to those who cracked it. I enjoyed some of the clues, so not time wasted, though that’s what most of us are doing now anyway :)

Re the comment from Scorpius, I hope it doesn’t require the Internet or I will feel a bit hard done by having had the last one I submitted turned down on those grounds.

I think I will try the puzzle recommended by cluelessjoe; I printed if off a while ago and forgot all about it.

[emcee]

I too am losing the will to finish this. Most of the grid filled easily within an hour last night; now I have six of the special clues left with little idea of what is going on.

Time spent more profitably on C's J, I think. At least internet searches are guaranteed some progress on this.

[12barblues]

So Debra Winger never won an Oscar.......

[Philoctetes]

Very much a straightforward puzzle, poisoned with an overdose of GWIT.

[NickorWan]

Regarding that Middle of the Road puzzle, I have filled the grid, have the message from the middle, and pretty sure I know what it is referring to, but I am stuck as to how that gives me the next step. I don't want to watch the video as I don't really want help, just yet anyway, but I would like to know if the end bit should be obvious or if it takes a bit of lateral thinking. Thanks.

[cluelessJoe]

Nick or Wan - the Middle of the Road ending is far from obvious ... in fact it may be something you have never seen before in a crossword. You need lateral thinking, multilateral observation and a careful hand. Good luck!

[NickorWan]

Thanks very much, I'll stick with it, but I am probably a bit short on three out of three of those!

[Cruncher]

Long time since I have actually disliked a Listener crossword - even with all the masochistic struggles of mathematical puzzles - but quite relieved that, having fallen into the N = 1 to 5 clique, an all-correct is but a fond wish. Eventually filled in several thematic gaps via hints from the other side and so shan't bother to submit. I felt too much of the endgame was a case of well it was sort of obvious once you knew what the answer was but with little help to find the original answers for the substitutions it became a very obscure puzzle to complete. And the other clueing was an odd mix of very straightforward and jolly oblique and my final addition based on the hidden messages is just a word rather than a finale - I guess I must be missing many layers of subtlety here. Hats off to the rest of you. On a positive I've managed to complete all the Magpie puzzles this month and have a much rosier inner glow from that.

[pushmi-pullyu]

Finally got there this morning having almost decided not to struggle any longer. Agree with all the criticisms above.

[NickorWan]

I gave in, CluelessJoe, which is just as well as I was playing around with a printed grid I had produced in Compiler - I would have been playing for evermore!

Really impressive how Simon saw the end so quickly.

[cluelessJoe]

At a bit of a disadvantage then Nick or Wan! Yes, Simon was remarkably quick to spot the twist, though he does of course have some history as both a former holder of the Listener Solver Silver Salver, and a test solver of the succession of brutes submitted to the Magpie. The Mad tie-in which he unearthed was icing on the cake for me, though it meant little as it must be over 40 years since I was a regular reader.

[NickorWan]

My introduction to the Mag came at a young age when my older brother started calling me Alfred E Neuman following a sledging accident.