News37 mins ago
.45 Bullets
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Given the huge size (close to half an inch diameter) of .45 revolver bullets, surely no-one could actually survive being shot by one (as in many Westerns).
Or am I missing something?
A
Or am I missing something?
A
Answers
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Poetic licence is a regular feature in anything to do with guns on screen.
Reality is, someone shot would probably collapse with instant unconsciousness caused by shock, rather than start returning fire, and the accuracy of hand guns fired by anyone with less than expert marksmanship means that the chances of hitting someone beyond a range ofd about six feet is highly dubious.
The bullets you mention are likely to remove a limb they hit, or cause catastrophic and instantly fatal damage to any part of the torso receiving one, but as I say, poetic licence is a wonderful thing.
Reality is, someone shot would probably collapse with instant unconsciousness caused by shock, rather than start returning fire, and the accuracy of hand guns fired by anyone with less than expert marksmanship means that the chances of hitting someone beyond a range ofd about six feet is highly dubious.
The bullets you mention are likely to remove a limb they hit, or cause catastrophic and instantly fatal damage to any part of the torso receiving one, but as I say, poetic licence is a wonderful thing.
Size,in this case,does not necessarily matter. A smaller round .223 or its metric equivalent 5.56mm could quite easily kill a person via trauma shock. The round,in many cases,when it was developed used to tumble and on hitting flesh caused a massive laceration on the exit wounds. The terrorists at the Iranian Embassy siege had smallish entry wounds and the exit wounds were the size of saucers.You could guess who was using the H&K MP5 and the American M16.
AH is correct. The level of accuracy in a western gunfight was more luck than marksmanship.
AH is correct. The level of accuracy in a western gunfight was more luck than marksmanship.
I am surprised Retro hasnt given more about muzzle velocities to be honest as one of the few here with firearms training
there are a few phtos of a gun fights - much further than portrayed and alot of crouching behind barrels
and
and there is an eye witness account in 1880 that you cd actually see the bullets - so the muzzle velocity was pretty low
here is one from the 'pule
https:/
the one I was thinking of - scouser drilled five times - at the trial for attempted murder - the victim said to the gang who had been indicted - "if you promise to stop shooting at me I will say you didnt do it" - agreed -acquitted. The pule is full of some evil evil men
oh and the number of times you can shoot yourself in a suicide attempt - five - Hong Kong white policeman accused of corruption. Yeha yeah the famuily say it was the triads
there are a few phtos of a gun fights - much further than portrayed and alot of crouching behind barrels
and
and there is an eye witness account in 1880 that you cd actually see the bullets - so the muzzle velocity was pretty low
here is one from the 'pule
https:/
the one I was thinking of - scouser drilled five times - at the trial for attempted murder - the victim said to the gang who had been indicted - "if you promise to stop shooting at me I will say you didnt do it" - agreed -acquitted. The pule is full of some evil evil men
oh and the number of times you can shoot yourself in a suicide attempt - five - Hong Kong white policeman accused of corruption. Yeha yeah the famuily say it was the triads
Regarding people being shot multiple times and living to tell the story; In 1892, when the Dalton Gang attempted to rob two banks on the same day (one on each side of the street) a quick thinking teller convinced them that the safe was on a time lock, giving the townsfolk opportunity to arm themselves. The gang were met with a barrage of bullets when they exited the bank, leaving 4 of the gang members dead. Despite being hit 23 times, Emmet Dalton survived, did 14 years jail time then went on to become an author and an actor. His first book, Beyond The Law, was adapted as a film in which he played himself.
Well I could of suppled this link which I believe covers most aspects of firearms trauma impacts and included muzzle velocity etc but I reckon the average ABer would find the subject totally boring or baffling. Its a long read.I could of guffed on about how many screws (left or right) to the inch in a barrel. Effects of barometric pressure on velocity and bullet drop,humidity.
Ballistics and firearms are not everyone's hobby horse so I kept it simple but be my guest if you can be bothered.
http://
The FBI made a reconstruction training film whereby a police officer with a female officer tried to serve a warrant on a perp in a flat. The perp opened the door and then opened fire. Both officers fell to the floor wounded and the male was dying. Both officers returned fire and received more rounds from the perp. Both officers reloaded whilst lying in the room and fired more rounds. Eventually the perp bled out and died. He was later counted with about fourty rounds in him but was full of crack cocaine so trauma was ineffective. The male officer died with a 10 rounds and the female received about 8 rounds and survived.
Ballistics and firearms are not everyone's hobby horse so I kept it simple but be my guest if you can be bothered.
http://
The FBI made a reconstruction training film whereby a police officer with a female officer tried to serve a warrant on a perp in a flat. The perp opened the door and then opened fire. Both officers fell to the floor wounded and the male was dying. Both officers returned fire and received more rounds from the perp. Both officers reloaded whilst lying in the room and fired more rounds. Eventually the perp bled out and died. He was later counted with about fourty rounds in him but was full of crack cocaine so trauma was ineffective. The male officer died with a 10 rounds and the female received about 8 rounds and survived.
For PP and anyone interested in muzzle velocity barrel, screw and tumbling bullets on impact.
//The reason ANY bullet can be fired accurately is due to the rifling in the barrel, spiral grooves cut inside the gun’s barrel that catch the bullet’s “skin” as it is fired which impart a spin on the bullet like a football from the hand of Brett Favre. The spinning bullet acts like a gyroscope; it doesn’t like getting pushed around. That’s why spinning bullets are accurate, and can make hits at a mile or more; their spin helps keep them flying straight and on course. Gravity affects bullet flight, of course, and wind blows them around quite a bit, but for the most part the rifling spin keeps the bullet flying straight. Canadian sniper sets world record with 2.2-mile pickoff of ISIS fighter According to Ben Franklin, the British unrifled “Brown Bess” military “rifle”, which fired a round lead ball from a smooth barrel, were so inaccurate that a British soldier would have a better chance of hitting the moon than hitting a man at 100 yards. In contrast, American Minutemen using rifles considered a man at 100 yard almost to be a chip shot. Long rifle - Wikipedia
The M-16 fired a round called the 5.56 NATO, a very small .224 caliber bullet weighing only 55 grains (about 1/8th of an OUNCE) traveling out of the barrel at over 3000 feet per second (fast!). Now as to the M-16’s bullet tumbling in flight like a saw blade, of course it didn’t. It couldn’t have; our soldiers wouldn’t have been able to hit anything fifty feet away from them if it did. But the rifling spin imparted to the small bullet was only 1 spin for every 12 inches of flight (1 in 12, for gun guys), just enough to keep the little .22 cal. bullet stable when flying through the atmosphere, but no more. When that tiny, fast moving but slow spinning bullet met additional resistance by striking a flesh and blood target, it would destabilize, and tumble end over end inside whatever it hit, creating a terrible wound. 5.56 bullet wound illustration • r/Military
In fact, the 5.56 often made a worse wound than the bigger 7.62 (.30 cal) round it replaced. The 7.62 NATO round, firing a much heavier bullet at a higher rate of spin, was so stable that it would often (not always, but often) stay stable even after it hit an enemy combatant, leaving a .30 caliber hole in and out as it flew straight through.
This sounds great for the 5.56, and often it was, but a barely stable bullet does not always penetrate barriers very well. And our enemies have a downright rude habit of firing at our soldiers from behind trees, berms, walls, etc. So the quick tumble on contact was a mixed benefit.
Varying conditions call for varying weaponry. In Viet Nam the combat ranges were relatively short, the targets were small (the average Vietnamese weighed about 120 pounds) and unarmored, and the 5.56 (once the rifles firing it were made reliable) did devastating work. In the sandbox we are fighting in now, ranges are a lot longer, targets are a lot better covered, and the 5.56 has come under some criticism. In an effort to make it better at penetration and give it added range, the 5.56 bullet has been increased in weight to 64 grains, and the rifling spin has been tightened. This has succeeded in improving the round for the most part, but it may be that the legendary lethalness of the spinning bullet is somewhat less than it used to be. //
1
//The reason ANY bullet can be fired accurately is due to the rifling in the barrel, spiral grooves cut inside the gun’s barrel that catch the bullet’s “skin” as it is fired which impart a spin on the bullet like a football from the hand of Brett Favre. The spinning bullet acts like a gyroscope; it doesn’t like getting pushed around. That’s why spinning bullets are accurate, and can make hits at a mile or more; their spin helps keep them flying straight and on course. Gravity affects bullet flight, of course, and wind blows them around quite a bit, but for the most part the rifling spin keeps the bullet flying straight. Canadian sniper sets world record with 2.2-mile pickoff of ISIS fighter According to Ben Franklin, the British unrifled “Brown Bess” military “rifle”, which fired a round lead ball from a smooth barrel, were so inaccurate that a British soldier would have a better chance of hitting the moon than hitting a man at 100 yards. In contrast, American Minutemen using rifles considered a man at 100 yard almost to be a chip shot. Long rifle - Wikipedia
The M-16 fired a round called the 5.56 NATO, a very small .224 caliber bullet weighing only 55 grains (about 1/8th of an OUNCE) traveling out of the barrel at over 3000 feet per second (fast!). Now as to the M-16’s bullet tumbling in flight like a saw blade, of course it didn’t. It couldn’t have; our soldiers wouldn’t have been able to hit anything fifty feet away from them if it did. But the rifling spin imparted to the small bullet was only 1 spin for every 12 inches of flight (1 in 12, for gun guys), just enough to keep the little .22 cal. bullet stable when flying through the atmosphere, but no more. When that tiny, fast moving but slow spinning bullet met additional resistance by striking a flesh and blood target, it would destabilize, and tumble end over end inside whatever it hit, creating a terrible wound. 5.56 bullet wound illustration • r/Military
In fact, the 5.56 often made a worse wound than the bigger 7.62 (.30 cal) round it replaced. The 7.62 NATO round, firing a much heavier bullet at a higher rate of spin, was so stable that it would often (not always, but often) stay stable even after it hit an enemy combatant, leaving a .30 caliber hole in and out as it flew straight through.
This sounds great for the 5.56, and often it was, but a barely stable bullet does not always penetrate barriers very well. And our enemies have a downright rude habit of firing at our soldiers from behind trees, berms, walls, etc. So the quick tumble on contact was a mixed benefit.
Varying conditions call for varying weaponry. In Viet Nam the combat ranges were relatively short, the targets were small (the average Vietnamese weighed about 120 pounds) and unarmored, and the 5.56 (once the rifles firing it were made reliable) did devastating work. In the sandbox we are fighting in now, ranges are a lot longer, targets are a lot better covered, and the 5.56 has come under some criticism. In an effort to make it better at penetration and give it added range, the 5.56 bullet has been increased in weight to 64 grains, and the rifling spin has been tightened. This has succeeded in improving the round for the most part, but it may be that the legendary lethalness of the spinning bullet is somewhat less than it used to be. //
1
oh and one lucky person managed to get shot
it entered a main artery and was swept to a further place within the artery where it blocked
https:/
it entered a main artery and was swept to a further place within the artery where it blocked
https:/
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