Changing council house tenancy

[Fitbin]

Hi all,

My mum is living on her own in a council house and has sadly been diagnosed with a very serious illness. I'm going to have to move back in to care for her.

Can anyone advise what I need to do to change the tenancy? She gets a lot of rent and council tax discounts for being a pensioner living alone but this will obviously have to change - the other aspect is (and I don't want to sound morbid) that if she passes, will I automatically become the tenant?

And advice or pointers are appreciated.

F

[Kim A]

Sussession to tenancies vary with every council, but on the whole, only one succession is allowed. as your mum lives there alone, I'm assuming she's been the sole holder of the tenancy since she moved there. If she has been the sole holder, you may ba able to have your name added to the tenancy, but that wouldn't give you automatic rights to stay in the propoerty if and when your mum dies. If your mum's house is a two or three bedrrom place, the COuncil would not allow you to have a sole tenancy for one person, they might be prepapred to move you (only if you were in housing need) to a one bed, on your own and give the place to a family. It becomes more complicated if your mum had a partner with her at the start of the tenancy. If the partner died, or left or whatever, the tenancy would have already gone through one 'succession' ie it passed to her as a sole tenant. This means that you would probably not be albe to take up the tenancy or be added to it. The best thing to do is ask your mum's housing officer. In any case, if you have your own home of any description, you would not be able to take over part of the tenancy. I know loads about this as I worked in housing, but unless I had more details I can't give you a complete answer. Hope this is helpful, anyway!

[Fitbin]

Thanks for your answer!

Basically, My mum moved there over twenty years ago with my brother and myself. We moved out over the years, so that may have constituted a change of tenancy?

But we're both moving back. I don't have anywhere else to live as my landlady has terminated the lease on my current place - my brother still has a houseshare elsewhere though.

[Kim A]

Fitbin, the tenancy would only have changed if you and your brother were adults (over 18) when you moved into the house with your mum and were actually signed up as joint tenants. That being the case, when you moved out, she would have had to apply for a new tenancy, just in her name. I am assuming you were children, though, so that would n't have happened. It sounds very much as if she is a sole tenant, in which case, you may well be able to have the tenancy changed to put you on it. You will only be able to do this with your mum's consent. Can I be rude and ask why you want to? I'm assuming it's because you don't want to be left homeless if she dies? (I'm sorry to ask that, but it's importnant)

[Floella]

Hi Fitbin,
I don't know if this will help, but my daughter was giving up her tenancy to buy a house, and wanted to put her sister down so she could take over the tenancy. Our local housing association said she would have had to have lived there for a year before they would put her on the tenancy, and she had to have letters showing her as living at that address for a year. So I don't think you'd be able to go on the tenacy straight away. It might be different as your circumstances are different. Good luck.

[Fitbin]

Well - it's the house that we grew up in and as such full of all our posessions and memories. We've all discussed this and it's her wish that we live there after she's gone.

You're not being rude at all, Kim! Thank you for being so helpful. We've all just been thrown into this situation and I really had no clue where to start looking for information.

[Kim A]

OK. I see where you're coming from. Your reasons for wanting to stay in the house after your mum dies are understandable, but unlikely to cut any ice with the Council or Housing Association. Unfortunately, Council and Housing Association properties are reserved solely for people in housing need, and sentiment doens't come into it at all. I'm sure the COuncil won't have a problem with your going to live with your mum. As a single(?) person with no dependents(?), you are not likely to be allowed to go on the tenancy. You would not be considered vulnerable, nor in need and the Council will have serious issues with you succeeding to the tenancy when your mum dies. Even more so, you would be one person, without dependents, living in (I assume) a house with more than one bedroom. That's always a no-no for a single person. I know your mum has been living there alone for some time, but that's probably because no-one's actually put two and two together. the house is actually statutarily too big for her. You don't get the privilege of spare rooms in Council accommodation and it is likely in the fiullness of time that someone would have caught up with her and offered her smaller accommodation. Even if you were granted a joint tenancy over the period of her illness, you would not be allowed to say there after her death and, if you are single and with noo dependents and not vulnerable, the council has no obligation to re-house you. I'm really sorry to be the harbinger of doom at what is a rotten time for you. My advice is to have a word with mum's housing officer. they'll tell you the best options. No-one will throw your mum out, I promise, she's vulnerable, because of her illness, so don't worry about that! Good luck!

[Fitbin]

You pay your taxes and look what happens etc.

Thanks for this advice, I'm really grateful. My brother and I are both going to move back in but as you say, that's unlikely to cut any mustard with the council mob.

I seem to recall there is a right-to-buy thing - do you know anything about that? If my brother and I moved in and somehow got the tenancy changed, could we apply for that?

Thanks again,

Ant

[Kim A]

Right to buy is dependent on your being the tenant for a qualifying period (which varies). So first, get your tenancy. However, IF there is a right to buy, and not all Councils have them, you might find it advantageous for your mum to buy the property. As she has lived there for many years, she'll get top rate discount on the scheme. If she does that, she can then will you boys the property on her death. Oh, God, this sounds so callous, I'm really sorry!

[Fitbin]

We wondered about that but also wondered if she may not qualify to buy given her age. Still, it's an option.

Thanks again, and it's not callous - these things are never easy to discuss, are they?

[Kim A]

Your mum's age shouldn't be an issue, just whether or not she can afford to buy the property. Some people who've lived in Council properties with a right ot buy for 20odd years get such a good deal that they only have to find a few thousand pounds. She's unlikely to get a mortgage, because of her age and her medical condition, but she might be able to rake up the necessary money from savings or similar. The other way to possibly consider is you and your brother rake up the necessary and lend it to her with the proviso (and she'd need to make a will) that the property is left jointly to you at her death. My best advice is: 1) make an appointment to see the Housing Officer
2)Ask HO about Right to buy and tenancy succession
3)investigate cash situation
4)Make solicitor's appointment
The other piece of advice: make sure you find out about things like carer's allowance, and the benfit's of right. Your mum should get some sort of extra benefit's if you are going to live with her as her carer. You also need to involve social services at this stage to see if they can help you with any adaptations, special equipment etc. and finally, don't forget to ask at the hospital to speak to the welfare officer (or almoner) as they should be able to help you with all sorts of 'nursing' type things. If I can help any more, let me know!

[WendyS]

Afraid I can't answer your query about council house tenancy, but check out the Age Concern website (Think it's AgeConcern.co.uk (or something similar). They do a lot of Fact Sheets about allowances & carers, etc. which might be helpful to you. It sounds as if your mother may be entitled to Attendance Allowance if somebody has to be living with her to care for her. The Fact Sheets may tell you how to get hold of the application form which may have to be countersigned by her GP.

[WendyS]

The website is: www.ageconcern.org.uk.

In the little box on the top right hand side of the site, where it says Key Issues, type in FACT SHEETS. This will bring them all up and you can download and print off any of specific interest.

[ravenswood]

Hi F
I know exactly how you feel. I live at home (council house) with my father who although old is thankfully in good health. However (and I don't think its callous either) for my own peace of mind I made enquiries about inheriting the tenancy should anything (god forbid) happen to my father. I was told no. I'm agoraphobic and have been housebound for almost 10 years and this is the only safe place I have but as Kim says, sentiment doesn't cut any ice with these people. As far as they're concerned Its a two bedroomed house and it would be under occupied if I lived there alone. According to them it should house five people. Talk about cramming them in like sardines! I suspect that this is a problem shared by an awful lot of us. I can't really offer you any advice mate I just wanted you to know that you're by no means alone.
I hope something can be done to help you
Best wishes x

[katerich48]

I have at least 3 friends who have all bought their parents houses for them, the parents apply to buy and the kids just pay the mortgage payments it's not illegal, the council have no idea in whose name the mortgage is - the parents then leave a will signing over the property to their children when they die....I also know people who have moved in like you are planning to do and got away with staying on (2 actually moved in after relatives died) One woman just got neighbours to write letters to the council to say her son had been living with his grandma for a year (albeit in a one bedroom flat) and this swayed it...they already knew the neighbours so this helps... Also I am on a housing co-op committee and we have a policy never to move anyone out of a property just because their family have moved on - we've have a few lone parents living in 3 bed propereties.. And we've never had anyone coming to us complaining about single elderly tenant living alone in their properties. I personally wouldn't advise telling her housing office anything...just move in - obviously the right to buy is probably the best way to go, as once she owns it there is nothing the council can do.. Let's face it if your ma hadn't applied for help with the rent, the council would never have known that you and your brother had even left....If and when you do move back, that's something you must remember to do - pay full rent and council tax..

[cazxx1]

if the housing officer agrees to it please please get it in writing my daughter lived with my mom from the age of 9 years old cause mom couldnt cope living on her own after my dad died when my daughter was 18 my mom found out she had cancer and only had a few months to live so 1 of the first things she did was see a housing officer and asked them if my daughter could stay there after agter she passed away they said it will be fine as soon as my mom died she had a letter telling her she had to get out and she ended upin a crummy little flat so get everything in writing and good look hope your mom is ok xx

[bryx]

no answer I'm afraid, but I am in a simular situation, I lived with my parents for thirty years my Father died twenty years ago and my Mother died on the 19/8/2006 I went to the housing office at the local council only to be told that I would not be allowed to live in my own home any longer. I have lived there thirty years with the same neigbours and I don't want to move out of my own home but what can I do the council have no compassion or morals