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New Manager Is Stricter And Introducing Changes.
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I work for an engineering company and I am office based. We have a new manager in our department, she is a young manager and is very enthusiastic, though it looks like she will be much stricter than our last manager. We all got on well with our previous manager, he was really easy going but probably too easy going. There had been issues where most of us felt he really should have taken some members of staff to task on but I don’t recall him ever doing so.
Our new manager has made it clear to us that she will do just that. In a recent department meeting she stated things like dress code must now be strictly adhered to at all times, she stated some examples such as a collared shirt and a tie must always be worn which applies to most of us as like myself we are mostly male. She also stated that permitted break times must not exceed the allocated 10 minutes. I’ll guess that she stated both of these issues as she will have observed them. Wearing a collared shirt and a tie is part of the dress code but quite a few don’t bother wearing a tie and most of us tend to exceed the allocated break times. She then stated that she will formally discipline any member of staff if they are seen not complying.
This has not gone down well with most though a few take the view that this is exactly what is needed. I’m taking the view that in two different managers, we seem to be going from one extreme to another. I’ll admit that things do need to be tightened up from the way our previous manager ran the department but it’s just that these are what I call small issues that we have got used to and taken for granted for years, yet we get told that not only will we not be able to do things like this, we will now be disciplined for not complying.
Do you think she is managing the department in a good way, is it right to discipline for minor breaches or is this over the top?
Our new manager has made it clear to us that she will do just that. In a recent department meeting she stated things like dress code must now be strictly adhered to at all times, she stated some examples such as a collared shirt and a tie must always be worn which applies to most of us as like myself we are mostly male. She also stated that permitted break times must not exceed the allocated 10 minutes. I’ll guess that she stated both of these issues as she will have observed them. Wearing a collared shirt and a tie is part of the dress code but quite a few don’t bother wearing a tie and most of us tend to exceed the allocated break times. She then stated that she will formally discipline any member of staff if they are seen not complying.
This has not gone down well with most though a few take the view that this is exactly what is needed. I’m taking the view that in two different managers, we seem to be going from one extreme to another. I’ll admit that things do need to be tightened up from the way our previous manager ran the department but it’s just that these are what I call small issues that we have got used to and taken for granted for years, yet we get told that not only will we not be able to do things like this, we will now be disciplined for not complying.
Do you think she is managing the department in a good way, is it right to discipline for minor breaches or is this over the top?
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I worked in one job where I single handedly made modifications to a production line, and increased its output from 40 unit/min to 48units/min, and glory shone all around.
Then I was threatened with the sack for being a few minutes late more than three times in consecutive months.
Petty doesn't begin to describe it.
Then I was threatened with the sack for being a few minutes late more than three times in consecutive months.
Petty doesn't begin to describe it.
"Woofgang, in your comments on this you have been very clear that you are totally behind our new manager taking staff to task if they breach any rules such as exceeding allocated break times.
As far as I'm aware disciplinary procedures have a number of steps such as it can start with a quiet word or arranging a hearing where a warning is given. Any further breach can then result in a further hearing where a formal written warning is given and then possibly dismissal.
I recall you said she has already had a word with everyone at a meeting so there is no need for a quiet word, so hypothetically, if you were the manager how would you deal with it? Say you see someone exceeding a break time on a first occasion, would you set up a hearing and formally discipline the member of staff?"
If I had said I would do it, then I would do it but she will probably need to follow the process. I used to work in the NHS both as a manager and a clinician, now retired. I am not sure if it has changed, but the formal process then was
1. Confidential recorded interview noted on employee's record. Employee views what is added to their record and may have a copy.
The intention here is to understand why the rule/rules are being breached and to ensure that the employee is able to comply. Employee may bring a colleague but that automatically escalates the process to level two
2. Formal minuted interview with colleague or union rep present if employee wishes. At this point manager must produce objective evidence of the rule breach. Again objective is to understand why the rule breach plus any reparation (eg extra time worked to make up for extra break time taken) All attenders get a copy of the minutes and one is placed in employees file. There is often a review meeting scheduled.
3. At this point it gets serious. Issue is escalated to senior manager(dismissing officer) and HR. A formal investigation is conducted by someone who is outside the employees management stream, either HR or a colleague manager (who may be managed by the same senior manager) depending on outcome (formal written warning, formal final written warning, other action, dismissal) there may be a review, further hearing or immediate dismissal. formal written warnings or final written warnings may be given earlier in the process if appropriate.
I have never been disciplined although I have had complaints against me investigated and dismissed. I have been involved in all other stages of the disciplinary process. In my last role, my jobshare partner and I inherited a bolshy team from a useless previous manager. Most of them had been partway through the disciplinary process at some point and thought they were fireproof. My partner and I rolled up our sleeves and set to work. Its not pleasant looking into the eyes of a work colleague and going through the process. Being involved in the dismissal of a colleague is horrible. At the point where I retired early, I was offered promotion to stay on for a year and "sort out" another team. I declined.
As far as I'm aware disciplinary procedures have a number of steps such as it can start with a quiet word or arranging a hearing where a warning is given. Any further breach can then result in a further hearing where a formal written warning is given and then possibly dismissal.
I recall you said she has already had a word with everyone at a meeting so there is no need for a quiet word, so hypothetically, if you were the manager how would you deal with it? Say you see someone exceeding a break time on a first occasion, would you set up a hearing and formally discipline the member of staff?"
If I had said I would do it, then I would do it but she will probably need to follow the process. I used to work in the NHS both as a manager and a clinician, now retired. I am not sure if it has changed, but the formal process then was
1. Confidential recorded interview noted on employee's record. Employee views what is added to their record and may have a copy.
The intention here is to understand why the rule/rules are being breached and to ensure that the employee is able to comply. Employee may bring a colleague but that automatically escalates the process to level two
2. Formal minuted interview with colleague or union rep present if employee wishes. At this point manager must produce objective evidence of the rule breach. Again objective is to understand why the rule breach plus any reparation (eg extra time worked to make up for extra break time taken) All attenders get a copy of the minutes and one is placed in employees file. There is often a review meeting scheduled.
3. At this point it gets serious. Issue is escalated to senior manager(dismissing officer) and HR. A formal investigation is conducted by someone who is outside the employees management stream, either HR or a colleague manager (who may be managed by the same senior manager) depending on outcome (formal written warning, formal final written warning, other action, dismissal) there may be a review, further hearing or immediate dismissal. formal written warnings or final written warnings may be given earlier in the process if appropriate.
I have never been disciplined although I have had complaints against me investigated and dismissed. I have been involved in all other stages of the disciplinary process. In my last role, my jobshare partner and I inherited a bolshy team from a useless previous manager. Most of them had been partway through the disciplinary process at some point and thought they were fireproof. My partner and I rolled up our sleeves and set to work. Its not pleasant looking into the eyes of a work colleague and going through the process. Being involved in the dismissal of a colleague is horrible. At the point where I retired early, I was offered promotion to stay on for a year and "sort out" another team. I declined.
Thank you for your detailed reply Woofgang, obviously you followed the disciplinary process to the letter and I can appreciate that you did not find it a pleasant experience to look across at a colleague being taken through the full process. I can also understand why you decided to take the option of retiring early.
THECORBYLOON: You asked "How long are folk taking in excess of the ten minutes?" I would say five to ten minutes more. So maybe five minutes more doesn't seem that much but ten minutes more is double the time allocated so some might see that as a breach that we should be formally disciplined for. Opinion might be divided on that!
THECORBYLOON & MartinMillar, an extra five minutes for a break time doesn't seem like a lot but I will admit that that the figures you state when added up over a full year is a significant amount.
I did also state that some of us do sometimes stay over a bit to finish something off, though we are not actually asked to do this and not paid any extra. I do it really because I feel better when I can finish something if it is coming towards an end.
I did also state that some of us do sometimes stay over a bit to finish something off, though we are not actually asked to do this and not paid any extra. I do it really because I feel better when I can finish something if it is coming towards an end.
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