The Problem Of Consciousness

[nailit]

Maybe one of the 'big 'questions that some on here would argue about, but....

Isnt consciousness just the product of the brain, just as heat is the product of fire?
Ive struggled with this question as much as anyone who has an interest in such things.

After a lifetime of reading about such things from NDE's to religion to investigating the occult and 'supernatural' and investigating spiritualism in all its forms...alternative spiritual philosophes etc.

I cant see anything that contradicts the view that consiousness is merley a brain activity
Where do you go when you sleep? (non REM)?
Where are *YOU* at 2am?
Your body (a collection of millions of cells) maybe asleep, but where is your consiousness?

Maybe the 'self' doesnt exist.
Scary thought in itself.....

[naomi24]

^A man after my own heart. We know how a thought or an emotion is produced but we can’t physically grasp either for laboratory examination. Man has a penchant for attributing that of which he is ignorant to the ‘supernatural’ and hence religion. A big mistake in my opinion. Entirely natural processes would be my guess. We just need to find out how it all works - but that could take some time.

[10ClarionSt]

What about someone who suffers from concussion? How conscious are they? They are told they have done things but don't remember them. Is it a form of sleep walking brought on by a head trauma?

[fiveleaves]

Consciousness is nsot a problem for me. We are not merely material beings eg. composed of atoms.
Humans are composed of the body which is material, and the spiritual eg the soul and the spirit.
When viewed this way consciousness ceases to be a problem.
Alternatively you could read someone like Daniel C Dennett on Consciousness but frankly I wouldn't bother

[Khandro]

10 Clarion: We do things we don't remember all the time: 'Now where the hell did I put my glasses?"

[fiveleaves]

Our sense of self is remarkably consistent on a day by day basis. If consciousness was merely the by product of brain activity would we really expect to have a consistent sense of self?
A thought experiment.
If it was possible to undergo a complete brain transplant would you in effect be a different person?
I would argue you would be the same person with a different brain

[naomi24]

That’s an interesting question, fiveleaves, but I think your conclusion is wrong. If our brains weren’t responsible for our individual thoughts and actions we would all think and act identically... but we don’t. Your emotions, your personality, your attitudes and your faith all emanate from your thought processes which are very different from mine ... obviously.

[Khandro]

fiveleaves; //If it was possible to undergo a complete brain transplant would you in effect be a different person?//

You would be the 'same person' but with a different psyche.
There is nothing left of you though, apart from your psyche, which existed circa 7 years ago, because every cell in your body has been replaced in that time - most of it much sooner than that.

[Atheist]

Khandro, aren't you the pattern of your atoms, not just the atoms themselves. Atoms could be thought to have no identity in themselves, in fact the whole universe could be an intricate web of a single particle travelling backwards and forwards in time and space. Does an electron or photon have a unique identity?

[mibn2cweus]

I approach consciousness from a different perspective. As I see it consciousness is not a problem but a useful, and essential tool that arises from the benefits it provides for a specific purpose, living. In its most basic form, consciousness is a process of acquiring and assimilating useful information from the environment that enables an organism to conform, live and thrive in that environment. As consciousness evolves it ultimately provides the means to gain an understanding of how the world works to a point where an organism can alter its environment to suit its own needs and purpose. Consciousness arises within an organism because it supports the organism that gives rise to it. When an organism ceases to function the process of consciousness ceases to be necessary or viable.
I've come to my conclusions about consciousness by asking, "What is consciousness, where does it come from, by what means and process did it arise and evolve, what sustains it, what is its purpose and requirements."
There are more fundamental questions one must answer before they can hope to make any real progress in their understanding. Those questions are, "What is knowledge? By what means do we acquire, process and confirm it?" The certainty with which you know comes from an understanding of how you know it. Since consciousness depends largely on the function of external organs I wouldn't say "it's all in your head" but a functioning cognitive brain is essential to any meaningful discussions one might hope to have about it.

Consciousness; where would we be without it?

[Khandro]

Atheist //Does an electron or photon have a unique identity?//

Such a silly, specious question. Why on every topic on every thread do you need to attempt the insertion of your jejune top-down narrow outlook?

[Atheist]

Khandro; I don't think I made a silly point. Do you think that an electron has an individual identity? It would be hard to define how that could be. Unlike humans, they seem to all have the same properties, and since their positions and velocities are not simultaneously determinable it's hard to imagine how one would define them as individuals. I'm only repeating from memory stuff that I have read, so I can't claim accuracy of recall or originality.