Turd

[Champagne]

Why are a lot of Irish people selective about when they pronounce 'th', e.g. third being pronounced turd. But then would pronounce 'them' correctly in the same sentence?!?!?

[delboy3]

I think that it depends on the strength of the 'th' sound, as it is pronounced slightly softer in 'them' (and 'this') as it is in 'third'. It may explain also why some people would say 'fird' instead of 'third' but not 'fem' instead of 'them'. I hope you see what I mean?!

[Champagne]

People who say 'fird' are just lazy or uneducated!

[warpig1]

Oh and some Irish people pronounce them as dem and this as dis!

For example 'gimme dem der turds and oil do dis now, begosh and begorrah"

Not a pop at the Irish as am one.

warpig1

[andy-hughes]

My mother-in-law is Irish, from Wicklow, and has a lovely soft brogue, which can turn positively Paisley-esque when she gets cross!

She never says tird for third, but she often puts a 'TH' in words that don't have them, so 'Trentham' becomes 'Trentham,' and 'Thames' becomes 'Thems'

I think it's an unconcious speech pattern, rather than deliberate selection.

[Quizmonkey]

It's slightly more than that, Delboy - not just 'softer' but completely different sounds. Look in any dictionary and you will see that different phonetic symbols are used for each. But yes, it is that that contributes to the mispronunciation distinction.

[saanen]

S'truth, Andy-Hughes, how come someone with a Wicklow accent suddenly begin to sound like Paisley? The good doctor would be scandalised at the mere thought!

[andy-hughes]

OK, I am exagerating somewhat, her voice does become more strident when she looses her temper, but since Dr.P's normal speaking voice when he;s trying to sound 'reasonable' is still a noise you could cut glass with, she still has a way to go.

[noxlumos]

I come from the fair city of Belfast where we can't say anything right.

[jno]

as Quizmonkey says, there are two different ways of pronouncing th, 'voiced' and 'unvoiced' (say 'them' and you'll feel your voicebox in action; say 'thick' and all you'll hear is your breath being forced between tongue and teeth). In Old English there were 2 different letters for the 2 sounds, which I can't reproduce here, but now th does for both. Anyway, Irish pronunciation of an unvoiced th may indeed sound like a T.

[lankeela]

Sorry to hijack your thread (or is it fred?) but why do the French say 'zis' and 'zat' and 'ze' for 'the'? Can they not say words beginning with the 'th' sound?

[Champagne]

And lest we forget the Germans, lankeela.

"Vee have zee vays ov making you talk!"

[Quizmonkey]

Iankeela - there is no sound in French that requires you to put your tongue between your teeth, therefore the mouth is not trained to do that and it's very hard for a French native to suddenly learn a new physiological movement. It's how accents come about: we hear a 'new' sound in a foreign language and instead of pronouncing it correctly (as our articulation has never done it) we replace it with the nearest sound in our language. Hope that makes sense!

[justasking]

i say third and i think people who say third are up their own ********* champaigne :-)