Who Wants Masks?

[diddlydo]

Boris announced yesterday that masks are to be made compulsory again in shops. In the summer he said that there would be no going back on the relaxation of measures. Face masks are a complete waste of time given the way that most people wear them so how many will join me in this little bit of civil disobedience and refuse to wear them?

[Untitled]

the CDC page has links to numerous studies looking at the effectiveness of masks in isolation and combined with social distancing... obviously the latter is better but the former is better than nothing... i also posted a paper which compares the effectiveness of different fabrics at blocking respiratory particles... single-layer cloth masks are less effective than others of course but they still do reduce transmission.

[jim360]

I should perhaps have added that any conclusions I personally reached in the last comment are certainly not meant to be definitive. It's an extremely complex question, because also you have to measure these things over the entire population *and* on an individual level.

[bobbinwales]

I wonder if alll those who question medical aadvice on maks and while we'er at it vaccinnes, also challeng e every prescription there given demanding to know all the side effects r, risks, is there evidence it works

pixie364, yes there may be overcounting to an extent but we know theres also lots of undercounting, eg if someone dies with covid but had'nt been tested. Covid mentioned on death certificates is higher than the deaths within 28 days of a test figure, and off course excess deahs are even higher and really thats the best measure

[New Judge]

//Does the sense of reassurance (originally the reason for masks), actually outweigh any potential benefit?//

Yes I believe it does, pixie. This time last year, when things were considerably different, I noticed that the "2 metre" rule (itself an arbitrary measure) was being largely ignored in shops and other public buildings. The incidence of mask wearing was reasonably good then and I'm quite sure that people were gradually becoming far less afraid of their fellow human beings than they had been six months earlier.

[Mamyalynne]

I don't know which is the more depressing - the chance of further measures or the interminable debates and repetitious trotting out of facts (true and otherwise) that are forever taking place.

Make your decisions based on your circumstances and keep away from others if you aren't sure - all this jabber solves little.

[pixie374]

Thanks, Jim, the masks are rarely properly worn, never fitted, and usually not medical grade. Will have a further look at the links... but I would be surprised if we have stats on masks for covid, specifically without social distancing?

[pixie374]

Bobbin, isn't it likely that those dying from covid, are at least ending up in hospital, if not ICU? Even if at home, why aren't they being counted?

[cashier]

Bobb, with all prescription medicines there is a leaflet which lists all possible side effects in order of likelihood.

[bobbinwales]

So maybe each disposable mask should come with a 3 page leaflet explaining how to wear it, what the scientific basis is, the stats on being suffocated or strangled by a mask. Or maybe people just focus on just wearing them and stop trying to claim its removing long fought freedoms (some Tory MP today) or claiming the science/health professionals is wrong

But i agree with Mamyalynne. Some just dont get this covid thing at all still claiming deaths are overstated, its flu, its only old fat or dementia people, all people die at some stage so whats the problem, diseases spread just get on and infect others stuff- however much evidence there given they'll still spout there nonsense so maybe best just to ignore them. Those that care can only do our best for

[pixie374]

NJ, my observation personally, was more careless the same day....
And bobbin,yes, I would neither take nor give medication without being fully sure of it. However, none are quite this new.

[pixie374]

Bobbin, very few would either read mask instructions, or buy the right kind. People who wear them at work have to have at least yearly courses. Not a list.

[New Judge]

//So maybe each disposable mask should come with a 3 page leaflet explaining how to wear it,…//

I don’t think it would help at all, bob. Many people who wear masks improperly are not really interested in wearing them at all. They are only doing so because they’ve been ordered to. That’s one of the biggest problems with the mask wearing mandate and one of the principle reasons why it’s largely ineffective.

//…and stop trying to claim its removing long fought freedoms (some Tory MP today)//

But the Tory MP is entirely right. It is a loss of a fundamental freedom to be ordered to cover your face. And that mandate is being glibly imposed and removed as if it means nothing. But a bigger problem than that is that many people fail to see how these powers, which seem to have been granted to Ministers in perpetuity without any further reference to Parliament, are simply being accepted as “normal.” There is nothing remotely normal in ordering the population to walk around masked up to counter a disease which, despite your claims to the contrary, badly affects, comparatively, only a very small number of people.

I understand your concern about the virus, bob. I think if you could accept that it will spread, regardless of any measures that can practically be taken, you’d be in a much better place. The UK has had getting on for two years of restrictions at various times and of various severities. During that time the virus has been known to have been contracted over ten million times and has probably actually been contracted at least twice as many times as that. So those measures cannot be said to have been a success by any measure. But still people suggest they must be taken regardless of the huge collateral damage of all sorts that they have inflicted upon the country. Of course you will say that the number of infections (and so serious illness and deaths) would have been far higher without them. There is no evidence to prove that. It is an assumption “because it’s obvious.” That may have been true eighteen months ago but the UK is a different place now, with almost everybody who wants it having received all the vaccine shots they need. There must come a time when something that is so obvious but so palpably a failure needs to be properly tested.

[diddlydo]

Eloquently said NJ. Thank you.