What Part Of The Recent High Court Judgement Is Not Clear?

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/snp-reveals-new-plan-to-secure-indyref2-without-westminster-backing-12767700
....The court said they cannot hold a referendum without UK government approval, so they think introducing a "bill" will somehow make it legal? Let it go love!

[New Judge]

It isn't voluntary and I don't know where that idea comes from. The Scots formed a Union with the UK because they were skint. The Union is now permanent until and unless the UK government decides to allow Scottish Independence. That, I think, is what the SNP fails to grasp.

[Untitled]

oh i think they grasp it alright...

[THECORBYLOON]

NJ, “[The Union] isn't voluntary and I don't know where that idea comes from.”

The leader of the Scottish Tories, Douglas Ross, has said the UK is a voluntary union. From 24th November,

‘Speaking on BBC’s Good Morning Scotland, he was asked, if the Union was voluntary, then how does Scotland go about leaving.

Ross said: “Well of course it’s voluntary and I’ve given you the clearest example that we live in a voluntary Union because just eight years ago we were given the opportunity to have our say on this issue.”’

[naomi24]

//Well of course it’s voluntary //

Where did he get that from? I've been trawling the internet to find something definitive but my eyes have glazed over.

[youngmafbog]

Call her bluff.

Tell her to gather her tartan army together and prepare for full Government of Scotland starting from say March.

Equivalent of light blue touch paper and stand back.

This has to stop, it is damaging to the rest of the UK, push them away now.

[Untitled]

i am a believer in the union and think it would do harm to everyone involved if the uk were to break apart...

but it seems to me now that the union is dead and beyond saving... might as well be held together with staples... nobody seems to care about it

scotland will get a referendum legally or illegally and if it's the latter then the breakup will be long and messy and nasty

either permit another referendum on the union or hold one in england&wales and obviously in NI... as sad as it makes me let's just get it over with... solve et coagula

[New Judge]

//Ross said: “Well of course it’s voluntary and I’ve given you the clearest example that we live in a voluntary Union because just eight years ago we were given the opportunity to have our say on this issue.”’//

Mr Ross is missing out an important step in his logic. Eight years ago a referendum was allowed, but that permission came from the UK government. Without it no official referendum could have been held. The Scots can hold a referendum without permission if they wish and the UK government may note the result. But unless it grants Scotland independence (which would require an Act of the UK Parliament) the only way Scotland can become an independent nation is via a UDI. I would suggest that those circumstances do not describe a "voluntary" union.

//...but it seems to me now that the union is dead and beyond saving... might as well be held together with staples... nobody seems to care about it//

I agree, UT. I cannot see the UK remaining in its current form for very much longer unless the UK government takes more leave of its senses than it already has. I simply don't see why they are so reluctant to hold a second referendum. That said, if the result of a second vote is the same as in 2014 that really should be the end of the matter for at least 20 years and that should be made clear when voters go to the polls. Scotland (in common with the rest of the UK) has far too many problems to see time and effort continually spent by its devolved government on what is increasingly looking like symptoms of a mental illness among its leaders.

[youngmafbog]

Perhaps add in if you vote to stay then the devolved Government will go. Same for the other two. All or nothing.

[THECORBYLOON]

NJ, if the party in power had a majority in Parliament, wanted England to leave the UK and had campaigned on that basis, what could prevent that from happening?

[ynnafymmi]

Us Scots had a vote in 2014,at the time all parties agreed to respect the vote.Salmond said it would be a once in a generation vote.Sturgeon said it would be a once in a lifetime vote.Both disrespected the Scottish electorate.I am happy to have a vote in 2035.Why not.Once in a generation after all.No,i wont speak about the East End of Glasgow type of generation.

[Zacs-Master]

'NJ, if the party in power had a majority in Parliament, wanted England to leave the UK and had campaigned on that basis, what could prevent that from happening?'

The law.

[Untitled]

don't see how zacs... surely england could in theory leave the uk by act of parliament if a party who supported gained a majority...

it would be pretty unlikely but what law could stop that?

[Zacs-Master]

England leaving the union would be decided by Westminster which is in.....England. A totally different situation. Scotland's disconnection requires an alteration of the Scotland Act 1998 (the 'law' to which I referred) which can only be granted by Westminster.

[Untitled]

perhaps i have misunderstood corbyloon's question then as he seemed to be asking about England

[Zacs-Master]

Ah, apologies, I miss read TCL's post.