ChatterBank0 min ago
Covid Enquiry - 2
So the government is refusing to hand over WhatsApp messages to the Covid enquiry – this will not go down well with the electorate.
The BBC article goes on about Boris Johnson’s WhatsApp messages, which he says he is happy to be handed over. But it’s not just Boris’s WhatsApp messages that the enquiry is after.
So why is the government taking this course of action?
Private Eye has been covering the Covid PPE procurement scandal for years – but they have only been able to document what is in the public domain. How a pub landlord with no previous experience of supplying PPE was able to win a multi-million pound contract supplying t PPE to the government is not known – other than he was a friend of a Tory minister.
I suspect that should the Tory government’s corruption in giving PPE contracts to their mates be exposed, while ignoring main stream PPE suppliers – even TTT would not be able to bring himself to vote for them.
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The BBC article goes on about Boris Johnson’s WhatsApp messages, which he says he is happy to be handed over. But it’s not just Boris’s WhatsApp messages that the enquiry is after.
So why is the government taking this course of action?
Private Eye has been covering the Covid PPE procurement scandal for years – but they have only been able to document what is in the public domain. How a pub landlord with no previous experience of supplying PPE was able to win a multi-million pound contract supplying t PPE to the government is not known – other than he was a friend of a Tory minister.
I suspect that should the Tory government’s corruption in giving PPE contracts to their mates be exposed, while ignoring main stream PPE suppliers – even TTT would not be able to bring himself to vote for them.
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//I'm not sure it's possible for me to disagree more with NJ's answer.//
I would expect nothing else, Claire. We did the Covid thing to death whilst it was ongoing and there’s no point in resurrecting the details here. But I would say that I strongly disagreed with many of the decisions made at the time and I do so even more now that the consequences of them are becoming known. Yes, those decisions were made without the benefit of hindsight as were my disagreements. But current indications (without the benefit of an official enquiry) indicate that many of the decisions taken have caused more collateral damage than the disease itself ever could have inflicted.
But this question is not really about that. It is simply another opportunity to pour scorn on to the Conservatives. As I said, they were unlucky. However I don’t believe a government of a different colour would have handled the crisis any differently, such was the collective “group think” prevailing at the time. In fact, I believe that, had the Labour Party been in office, the Christmas of 2021 would have gone the same way as the previous year – cancelled to all intents and purposes.
//If NJ is right that there was little interest in the enquiry, then it makes the fight over these messages even more bizarre, because it ends up being a massive own goal.//
Politicians believe the public are interested in everything they do. That is one of their many failings. Most people are too busy getting on with their lives and many are still trying to pick up the pieces from their suffering during the pandemic. They are not particularly interested in WhatsApp messages between politicians, their cronies and civil servants. Other countries have completed their Covid enquiries; they established what went right, what went wrong and used that information for future planning. The UK’s enquiry will drone on and on, frequently interrupted by spats such as this, and by the time it reports everybody will have forgotten what it was supposed to address.
//Hmm, I see that the Government is now going to have an inquiry into the Phillip Schofield affair.//
I think it is the ITV that has requested that enquiry. I can save them the bother (and the cost):
- Gay TV presented gets married to a woman.
- He has an affair with a younger male colleague.
- He “comes out” as gay (after 27 years of marriage).
- Rumours abound on social media about his private life.
- His co-presenter gets worried about this.
- TV presenter tells lies to his wife, his employer, his colleagues, his lawyers and his agent.
- TV presenter resigns.
- His employers order an enquiry into the matter.
- Er…that’s it.
Nothing of much significance to enquire into - certainly not enough to pay a KC to investigate.
I would expect nothing else, Claire. We did the Covid thing to death whilst it was ongoing and there’s no point in resurrecting the details here. But I would say that I strongly disagreed with many of the decisions made at the time and I do so even more now that the consequences of them are becoming known. Yes, those decisions were made without the benefit of hindsight as were my disagreements. But current indications (without the benefit of an official enquiry) indicate that many of the decisions taken have caused more collateral damage than the disease itself ever could have inflicted.
But this question is not really about that. It is simply another opportunity to pour scorn on to the Conservatives. As I said, they were unlucky. However I don’t believe a government of a different colour would have handled the crisis any differently, such was the collective “group think” prevailing at the time. In fact, I believe that, had the Labour Party been in office, the Christmas of 2021 would have gone the same way as the previous year – cancelled to all intents and purposes.
//If NJ is right that there was little interest in the enquiry, then it makes the fight over these messages even more bizarre, because it ends up being a massive own goal.//
Politicians believe the public are interested in everything they do. That is one of their many failings. Most people are too busy getting on with their lives and many are still trying to pick up the pieces from their suffering during the pandemic. They are not particularly interested in WhatsApp messages between politicians, their cronies and civil servants. Other countries have completed their Covid enquiries; they established what went right, what went wrong and used that information for future planning. The UK’s enquiry will drone on and on, frequently interrupted by spats such as this, and by the time it reports everybody will have forgotten what it was supposed to address.
//Hmm, I see that the Government is now going to have an inquiry into the Phillip Schofield affair.//
I think it is the ITV that has requested that enquiry. I can save them the bother (and the cost):
- Gay TV presented gets married to a woman.
- He has an affair with a younger male colleague.
- He “comes out” as gay (after 27 years of marriage).
- Rumours abound on social media about his private life.
- His co-presenter gets worried about this.
- TV presenter tells lies to his wife, his employer, his colleagues, his lawyers and his agent.
- TV presenter resigns.
- His employers order an enquiry into the matter.
- Er…that’s it.
Nothing of much significance to enquire into - certainly not enough to pay a KC to investigate.
// But this question is not really about that. It is simply another opportunity to pour scorn on to the Conservatives. As I said, they were unlucky. //
Unlucky indeed, although somehow many at the time used it to bash the performance of a hypothetical Corbyn Government. For my part, I'd prefer to "bash" that over its likely response to the Ukraine crisis, which would almost surely have been a shadow of the current one.
But I did want to comment on the issue about this being an excuse to pour scorn on the Conservatives. Firstly, I am sure it's true from some people, but whatever, I can't be responsible for that. But mainly it seems that this is prompting Tory infighting. It's notable that Johnson seems determined to fully cooperate, or at least be seen as fully cooperating, with the public enquiry, and has openly criticised or undermined the Government's approach. So there are also clearly internal Tory dynamics at play here -- not a particularly brilliant bit of insight on my part I confess, but I do wonder what's going on, and what Johnson's motivations are.
In any case, public enquiries aren't really about apportioning blame, but abut improving for next time. The UK's pandemic response was, prior to Covid, held to be world-leading (and not just by the UK either). It would be nice, surely, to be able to claim that prestigious title again and *mean* it this time.
Unlucky indeed, although somehow many at the time used it to bash the performance of a hypothetical Corbyn Government. For my part, I'd prefer to "bash" that over its likely response to the Ukraine crisis, which would almost surely have been a shadow of the current one.
But I did want to comment on the issue about this being an excuse to pour scorn on the Conservatives. Firstly, I am sure it's true from some people, but whatever, I can't be responsible for that. But mainly it seems that this is prompting Tory infighting. It's notable that Johnson seems determined to fully cooperate, or at least be seen as fully cooperating, with the public enquiry, and has openly criticised or undermined the Government's approach. So there are also clearly internal Tory dynamics at play here -- not a particularly brilliant bit of insight on my part I confess, but I do wonder what's going on, and what Johnson's motivations are.
In any case, public enquiries aren't really about apportioning blame, but abut improving for next time. The UK's pandemic response was, prior to Covid, held to be world-leading (and not just by the UK either). It would be nice, surely, to be able to claim that prestigious title again and *mean* it this time.
NJ: I don’t think there was any luck in the Tories mates, being awarded ridiculously inflated PPE contracts at the taxpayer’s expense (and we’re talking many, many billions of pounds).
This scandal has filled so many pages of Private Eye, and some in the main stream press, that these publications should be included in the enquiry’s final report.
This scandal has filled so many pages of Private Eye, and some in the main stream press, that these publications should be included in the enquiry’s final report.
the conservatives were indeed unlucky to have to deal with covid... however it is the responsibility of any government to deal with crises and whereever possible to be prepared for them... they weren't.
they elected not to stockpile protective gear in 2017 when advised to do so on the grounds of it being too costly
they elected an unserious and very lazy man to be the prime minister in 2019 when his faults were well-known... as a result the UK spent the first vital weeks of the pandemic - when it is most easy to contain - dithering with an extremely foolish "herd immunity" strategy when no vaccine was available and against the best scientific advice available... this allowed new infections to skyrocket and without a doubt set us on a terrible footing. this early response was condemend by a commons inquiry to be the worst public health failure in UK history... i agree with them.
that's before you even get to the profiteering scumbag donors who were allowed and encouraged to fleece the public by the conservatives
would labour have made all of these mistakes? personally i don't think they would... they probably would have made different ones but it is beside the point... if people wish to use the pandemic to pour scorn - even hatred - on the conservative party, then in my opinion they are fully entitled to do so because that party was entrusted with power and look what they did with it.
they did not "get us through" the pandemic they made it worse and they should not be spared any accountability for it whatsoever!!
they elected not to stockpile protective gear in 2017 when advised to do so on the grounds of it being too costly
they elected an unserious and very lazy man to be the prime minister in 2019 when his faults were well-known... as a result the UK spent the first vital weeks of the pandemic - when it is most easy to contain - dithering with an extremely foolish "herd immunity" strategy when no vaccine was available and against the best scientific advice available... this allowed new infections to skyrocket and without a doubt set us on a terrible footing. this early response was condemend by a commons inquiry to be the worst public health failure in UK history... i agree with them.
that's before you even get to the profiteering scumbag donors who were allowed and encouraged to fleece the public by the conservatives
would labour have made all of these mistakes? personally i don't think they would... they probably would have made different ones but it is beside the point... if people wish to use the pandemic to pour scorn - even hatred - on the conservative party, then in my opinion they are fully entitled to do so because that party was entrusted with power and look what they did with it.
they did not "get us through" the pandemic they made it worse and they should not be spared any accountability for it whatsoever!!
Untitled yes the Tories were unlucky to have Covid on their watch, but they handled it very very badly.They also had Brexit on their watch ,which was their fault and they Handled that very very Badly ,, And it will be pay back time at the GE. think it will be the end of Tories in Govt for a very very long time.
I actually think they are correct in seeking a legal view on this as it could have ramifications in the future (For Ministers of all colours).
well, leddy Hallett has said ' read the Inquiries Act, it is all there' and it is. She has the power.
Now, if you had a video of someone being stabbed outside your house, and the police want it, and they find nardy pictures - of kids,
would they ignore it?
they would not....
we all have to obey the law - - altho as one NY publisher sneered to Prince Harry who had demanded photos "in the land of the free we all have to obey the law, altho it may not be the case where Kings reign"
well, leddy Hallett has said ' read the Inquiries Act, it is all there' and it is. She has the power.
Now, if you had a video of someone being stabbed outside your house, and the police want it, and they find nardy pictures - of kids,
would they ignore it?
they would not....
we all have to obey the law - - altho as one NY publisher sneered to Prince Harry who had demanded photos "in the land of the free we all have to obey the law, altho it may not be the case where Kings reign"
also re schofield - what has it got to do with the goverment??
this has been overplayed on AB ( impossible, surely not!)
Times had - - - some sub-ctee of MPs with nothing to do were gonna interview the head of ITV for an afternoon.
Usual legal position of - - they can call whom they like.
See above
NOT a super duper £100m enquiry - see above again
this has been overplayed on AB ( impossible, surely not!)
Times had - - - some sub-ctee of MPs with nothing to do were gonna interview the head of ITV for an afternoon.
Usual legal position of - - they can call whom they like.
See above
NOT a super duper £100m enquiry - see above again
ITV is not accountable to the government other than compliance with the terms of its licence. it is regulated by Ofcom in the same way as BT is. It is most unlikely that the government would concern itself with the behaviour of any of BT's employees, and it is equally unlikely to concern itself with the behaviour of any of those of ITV.
there was a lady on the news and she said believe it or not, the nation needs to heal mourn over two idiots getting the push from presenting
i was like really..feckin really, i took that one to the pub, when i told it all i got was massive belly laughs...an old dear in the corner mumbled something like err should have kept it in his pants...you could imagine the laughs, but she had no idea...
i was like really..feckin really, i took that one to the pub, when i told it all i got was massive belly laughs...an old dear in the corner mumbled something like err should have kept it in his pants...you could imagine the laughs, but she had no idea...
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