Is salvation by faith alone?

[steenbrassie]

Is salvation by faith alone, or faith plus works?

[dot.hawkes]

Do all religions have the ideal of salvation then? I wasn't sure on that point .:)

[pixie_woo]

I'm not a religious person so I will try to offer an objective opinion.
If salvation is delivered by faith alone then surely a devout murderer/rapist would be granted entrance to heaven. If one has faith and performs good works can a previous misdemenour be absolved? This is such a can of worms!

From a non-religious view point I think that you can be a good person by performing good works without faith. I try to do the best by other people but I'm not motivated by faith but by my principles and morals.

[whiffey]

Doesn't it depend on which religion you are ?

If a Christian, then you can go with Paul's salvation by faith or James' greater emphasis on works. Personally I hope it is faith, which is so much harder to find.

[Clanad]

If your question concerns the Christian definition of salvation, the Scripture is quite clear... salvation, the cleansing of one's sin, being made in right standing with El Shaddai can only come thorugh faith in Yeshua. In John 14:6 He says, "... no man comes to the Father except through Me". This verse probably offends more people than any other. But it clearly indicates that no one can be rightousness enough in their own effort to meet the unimaginable holiness of G-d. Only through the blood of the Lamb of God does The Father see us with our sin nailed to the cross and fully paid for. Good works can be an indicator of repentance, but they will not, in and of themselves give one the ability to approach G-d's throne.
Problem is, everyone has their own deffinition of good works. There would have to be the knowledge of what level of good works would be sufficient... none, in my opinion...
And... pixie_woo, you're exactly right. If a convicted murderer repents and truly accepts Yeshua, then he is saved... otherwise G-d would be playing favorites... which, by His very nature, he cannot do. "We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of G-d..." says Romans 2:23. The difficulty in relying on "your own principles and morals" is, by what measuring stick do you use to determine suffciency? You may think your actions are enough, but when compared, as stated, to the neccessary level of perfection to enter G-d's kingdom, all fail...
Contd.

[Clanad]

Contd.

For dot.hawks, any other religion that predicts a life after death has a "works" based criteria for entry... dependent on your actions while here. My limited understanding of Buddhism indicates that a person enters Nirvana by, after countless reincarnations, reaching a level of extinguishng all traits of ones own personality. Hinduism and it's reliance on Moksha, or spiritual liberation, believes, again as I understand it, predicts no actual afterlife, but after an endless series of reincarnation the individual is merged with Brahmin , without "self", described often as a drop of water in the ocean. Islam. relies entirely on works, with the exception, possibly of the martyr who is automatically given entry... Sorry, don't know enough about Spiritualists, Wiccans or others to expound on them.an..

[steenbrassie]

thanks...think i found my answer!

and this question is with regards to christianity (or for those who have a relationship with the Lord).

[steenbrassie]

Found answer in Eph. 2:8-9
Thanks again!

[dawkins]

Clanad

So does that mean that according to Christianity only christians can go to heaven? not jews or muslims?

(out of interest only, I'm not going to be argumentative)

[Clanad]

Simple answer, dawkins is yes, as your question applies to Muslims. Either that or Yeshua didn't mean what he said... However, Jews are another question.... After the Gentiles fullness has come in, after the church is complete (Romans 11:25 "For I would not, brothers, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own haughtiness, that blindness in part has happened to Israel, until the 'fullness of the Gentiles' be made complete.")
God will go back and redeem Israel and Zechariah tells us exactly how. He says, �They will look on Him whom they have pierced and they will mourn for Him as an only son.� That is an indication that their salvation comes about directly as a relationship of their focus on Yeshua ha Massiach. At that point, they will be saved. (I think we are seeing this played out with the many Jews around the world and Israel becoming Messianic Jews). And, then He will fulfill His covenant as described in verse 27, He will take away their sin. As concerning the gospel, now, they have become enemies for the Gentile's sake. In other words, in God�s eternal purpose, they (the Jews) are the beloved for the Father�s sake, for God cannot change His covenant. His gifts and callings are without repentance, and so, He will bring them back. But, the bringing back has to be around the truth of Yeshua.

Contd.

[Clanad]

Contd.

I fully realize the enormity of the answer as it relates to those not in covenant realtionship with Yeshua and their not being saved. But it goes to the heart of the question about who and for what purpose Yahweh sent Yeshua... in my opinion... (I appreciate your question, I've taken many years to come to this conclusion and to rely on the nature of Who G-d truly is through His Word, regardless of whether I like it or not). The bottom line is that the offer of this relationship is totally and absolutely free... not pre-conditions or "cleaning" one's self up first.... just as you are, my friend...
(I do wish there would be a way to say all this in shorter terms...)

[dawkins]

thanks

[mibn2cweus]

steenbrassie, You paint yourself into a corner by pre-supposing that faith has anything at all to offer in the way of salvation. Faith is a departure from that which delivered humanity from the clutches of mysticism in our past and is the only thing that can save us now, reason.

dawkins, Retrospection may reveal that most religions tend to split humanity ideologically into opposing camps, if not intentionally. However, when necessity dictates, they will rally together to oppose those who threaten to expose the absurdity of religious tribalism.

[jake-the-peg]

Clanad,

Just as a matter of interest why are you writing G-d in some places and God in others?

Is there a special relevance to where you have used G-d or is this a new habit that you're still working on?

Or is it a keyboard problem? :c)

[pugwashjw]

Faith plus works.
(James 2:17-18) Thus, too, faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself. 18�Nevertheless, a certain one will say: �You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith by my works.�



(James 2:21-22) Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he had offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22�You behold that [his] faith worked along with his works and by [his] works [his] faith was perfected,



(James 2:26) Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

[Lonnie]

jake, Jews aren't allowed to say or write Gods name, which begins with a Y, as its considerd too holy to to utter, I believe Clanads, <b/>a Christian, but have no idea which sect he belongs to, but I would guess that it was written that way for the same reason.

[Lonnie]

Sorry for the continuous bold, an accident.