Credit Where It's Due.....

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/its-a-smash-and-grab-raid-on-the-constitution-the-last-of-the-hereditary-peers-13278998

While you are at it, abolish the whole show and replace with an elected upper house.

[naomi24]

Sneaky Barry.  😉

[Khandro]

naomi; The Lords - all unelected - blocked the Rwanda scheme five times. 

In 1999, the House of Lords Act abolished the automatic right of hereditary peers to sit in the House of Lords. Out of about 750 hereditary peers, only 92 may sit in the House of Lords.

How many of that 92 sit on any given day I don't know, - not many I imagine. So how did they effect the Rwanda Bill alone ?

[naomi24]

khandro, I didn't say they alone affected the Rwanda bill.  Unelected people shouldn't be elevated to a position where they have the ability or the power to affect anything.

[Khandro]

naomi; // Unelected people shouldn't be elevated to a position where they have the ability or the power to affect anything./

Well, that wipes out, the civil service, the judiciary, the police, the armed forces & more.  

[naomi24]

And there you go - off into airy fairy land again.

[Untitled]

the civil service and the police are accountable to people who are elected and the judiciary enforce laws which are created democratically. the armed forces don't have any power in the UK and a very good thing that is too. 
 

sorry but you shouldn't get to have a seat in parliament because your ancestor was a warlord on the winning side. 

[Davemano]

Annoying to see some of them just sleeping or dozing, and getting £361 pounds attendance allowance plus expenses.

[naomi24]

^more than the pensioners' winter fuel allowance.

[Khandro]

Davemano; //Annoying to see some of them just sleeping or dozing ......//,

A lot of people say that. I had a very good friend (r.i.p.) who was an hereditary peer who once took me around the H.of L.

If you look at the padded red-leather bench-backs you can see at regular intervals what looks like an embossed emblem, which is in fact a small loudspeaker. Many of the Lords are of advanced years and are a bit hard of hearing and place their ear close to it which gives the impression that they are asleep. 

[Old_Geezer]

There should be no elite by right of birth in either chamber.

 

Removing them is a step in the right direction, although we've heard of sorting the HoL before and we are still with the existing arrangement.  So no holding of one's breath.

 

There should be no elite by the patronage of politicians (or anyone else for that matter) in either chamber, either.

 

There had better be further action to sort that soon too.

 

To reduce the chance of control of the 2nd chamber by those outside of it, political parties & whips should be banned from it.

 

To stabilise things 2nd chamber members should be serving longer terms than the HoC and only a portion of them up for reelection at any one time.  Elections should not be held for both Houses at the same time.

 

So when is the rest going to be announced ?

[Old_Geezer]

"the civil service and the police are accountable to people who are elected"

 

Yes Minister tended to suggest otherwise. If you are an unskilled naive politician and relying on guidance to learn the short lived job then power transfers to those who guide you.

[Old_Geezer]

Hard working hereditory peers can apply to be advisers in their specialist subject, if they have one.

[Khandro]

Untitled; //the civil service and the police are accountable to people who are elected and the judiciary enforce laws which are created democratically. the armed forces don't have any power in the UK //

It is naïve to believe that members of parliament are running the country. Britain is increasingly ruled by the Civil Service and lawyers. Of the former, ask successive home Secretaries including Priti Patel who was hamstrung by her department and referred to it as 'not effing fit for [her] purpose'.

The ECHR has authority over the British Parliament and MP's despite what you believe are, (thanks to Tony Blair) under the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court.

The police are running amok with 'non-crime hate offences' etc., and misdemeanours in the armed forces are, as always, tried by court marshals.   

  

[Untitled]

 the civil service is accountable to democratically elected ministers. i have no idea what the context of priti patel's comment was but she is not a very trustworthy person so i am inclined to dismiss it. 
 

the idea that we should just accept hereditary peers because you hate lawyers and the civil service is a dumb argument. 

[Khandro]

Untitled; This morning at 10:53 you posted,  the civil service is accountable to democratically elected ministers.

By an extraordinary coincidence and nothing at all to do with that, my son has just sent me this link, which if you care to watch will be of interest to you;

 

 

 

 

 

[davebro3]

fascinating & disturbing but quite believable