Trump Says Ukraine "Should Have...
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Things are already getting better. Rachel Reeves is trying to undo Brexit after she says she is happy for the UK to join a new European tarrif free trade scheme.She indicated she would consider signing up to the Pan European Mediterranean Convention. Go for it Labour.
No best answer has yet been selected by gulliver1. Once a best answer has been selected, it will be shown here.
For more on marking an answer as the "Best Answer", please visit our FAQ.“i suspect we are agreed on the view that anybody who voted to leave hoping it would result in EFTA membership rather than EU membership was being very foolish but i can tell you for certain that some people did.”
Yes I do agree that they were being foolish. But it’s no different to voting Labour believing they were the champions of free enterprise and that they would slash taxes. I also know these things were discussed before the vote. But the issue that annoys me most is that after the referendum it was suggested – quite forcefully in some quarters – that accommodation must be made for the Remainers by making Brexit “soft” (i.e. continuing with some formal association with the EU’s institutions).
There are two reasons why the precise nature of our departure was not offered to voters. The first (and most important) was that virtually no politicians and very few voters (me included) believed in their wildest dreams that a “leave” vote would be returned. But secondly, even if they did, there was no firm information provided to indicate what form that departure would take because nobody knew. It was unchartered territory.
So with that in mind, voters should have assumed that leaving meant we would simply join the rest of the world (apart from Iceland, Norway and Liechtenstein) and be unbound by the EU or any of its institutions. They should also have assumed that none of the advantages of EU membership would be retained. That was the most severe outcome that could happen (but, needless to say, for me the best) and if they were fearful of that happening they should have voted to remain. I simply don’t buy the “We were misled” and “We expected something else” claims. Voters have a duty to think for themselves before voting and they most certainly should not believe what politicians tell them. If they vote without thought or based on the ramblings of politicians, they have only themselves to blame.
"But the issue that annoys me most is that after the referendum it was suggested – quite forcefully in some quarters – that accommodation must be made for the Remainers by making Brexit “soft” (i.e. continuing with some formal association with the EU’s institutions). "
well yes that is a legitimate thing to be annoyed about. i can't say it got to me that much but i can see why it would have bothered you.
"So with that in mind, voters should have assumed that leaving meant we would simply join the rest of the world (apart from Iceland, Norway and Liechtenstein) and be unbound by the EU or any of its institutions."
ok but "should" and "did" are very different things. neither of the people i mentioned who wanted an EFTA brexit are stupid (though they did severely misjudge this in my view). one came around to the idea of brexit because he thought that arrangement would benefit his company and convinced himself it was the most likely outcome, the other did so because he decided it was "common sense" to leave in such a way that protected free movement and the internal market simply didn't think a UK government would compromise that. he would frequently repeat boris johnson's "cake" soundbite as a summary of his position.
i'm not saying either of them were right... in fact i argued mightily with both of them at the time. i'm saying that what they meant by "brexit" was different to what you meant by "brexit" and that all three of you voted for the same thing in june (or was it july?) 2016 even though you could not possibly have all gotten what you wanted. the "leave" vote comprised many different causes that all coalesced around one box on the ballot paper and then parted company with each other. it isn't true to say that brexit meant the same thing to all leave voters because it didn't.