christianity question

[bobtheturkey]

had this discussion with a work colleague who is a christian and couldn't get a satisfactory answer.

case study A - a convicted child molester abuses kids throughout his life genuinely repents his sins 6 months before he dies and in this period leads an exemplary god fearing life - according to the teachings of the bible this man spends eternity in paradise?

case study B - a lesbian who does not believe in god or the bible in any way but who is a really nice person would help anyone, dies and she according to the bible will spend eternity in hell?

so how can christianity justify this? how can this be a cornerstone of such a major religion? im not anti bible i was brought up to believe in what it says but things like this puzzle me.

[whiffey]

Sorry to bob for drifting on his thread.

It is as likely and documented that JC rose from the dead as that Caesar invaded Britain. (And if you wanted to invent a credible lie, then why let Jewish *women* discover the empty tomb ?)

[bobtheturkey]

fire away whiffey im intrigued :)

[snagged]

I'll have to 'agree to disagree' on the ressurection thing Whiffey!

(I'd still give the paedos a good kicking though)...

[whiffey]

OK, thanks bob, here's another thought. If JC died on the cross ***, then how come a movement arose in his name ?

If he swooned and was revived, wouldn't it have been as a physical wreck ? Not a figure to inspire men to die for the belief as far away as Rome.

*** there is a mass of evidence for this, a whole seething and unsettling mass

[bobtheturkey]

i cant get an answer on these sorts of questions like when i mention the cavemen to a religious person they change the subject

[whiffey]

Er ? <scratches head>

Ah, but of course, cavemen existed, Christ didn't.

Jesus Christ is actually a big problem.

[bobtheturkey]

so how can so many people be fooled whiffey?

[noxlumos]

I don't think anyone here has denied that Christ existed whiffey, certainly I don't find his EXISTANCE in any doubt, what I d doubt is that he was the son of God or that he rose from the dead. I see no credible contemporay evidence to suggest either. He existed alright, but was he anymore the son of God than the next charismatic cult leader. People dying for their perceived masters is still going on, look at Waco for example or any other situation where the empty and gullible find their emotional and personal voids filled by n who promises better things and makes them feel enlightened and special. I really would love to believe, it's one of my ardent wishes but I just can't find any of it credible, but then I suppose religion is about faith not proof.

[whiffey]

Presumably they are all stupid bob.

However.... if we are presented with well-documented evidence we have to take it seriously, at least as seriously as Caesar's Gallic Wars, or Pliny, or Josephus, which are all undisputed truth.

Why did the fabricators make the elementary mistake of having women discover the empty tomb ? A woman's evidence was of no weight.

[Carakeel]

whiffey, but to me the bible is a book of stories that have been handed down through generations via thousands and thousands of people in written and spoken form and have been interpreted and re-interpreted and quite possibly even misenterpreted? I have no doubt that there was a Jesus of Nazareth, but in my eyes he was a man like most, with the difference that he was a truly good man (a bit like Gandhi) who drew followers because of his charisma, his intelligence and his kindness. There is no reason why stories about him should not have been kept alive through the generations. But there are things that I do find hard to believe ... i.e. that he arose from the dead .

[joby1]

Whiffster, have you ever read a completely fictional and totally unbelieveably crap story, and been scared out of your pants?? No....? Nor Me .

[whiffey]

So, Jesus existed - nice of you to concede that. But didn't rise from the dead - and why ? - because it seems unbelievable. As incredible as forgiving your enemies. This is the attraction, the impossibility of it all.

It seems to me that if you are the son of god then walking on water, raising Lazarus from the dead, is all so much of a doddle. Just because it seems implausible to us doesn't make it any less factual than, say, Caesar invading Britain. I ask again, silently to myself - why make it up ? What would be the point. And making it up 4 times in slightly different ways, and doing it really badly, like not producing a corpse when it was most needed.