ChatterBank2 mins ago
right of access
We live in a private road and a neighbour opposite owns a building plot forming part of his garden since 1955. He is now selling his house seperately and the building plot with outline planning permission for a 3 bedroom detatched house. There has never been access from the road across the grass verge owned by the residents association and until recently he had a sign with an arrow attached to his garage wall showing where the access was , how does the owner gain access to the plot ?
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I think there are two alternatives:-
1. He gives a right of way over part of the land which goes with the house, so that the new house can be accessed from his present entrance. (This may not be possible - depends on the layout of the land.)
2. The new house has to have its access over the grass verge. If this verge is owned by the residents association & 1 above is not possible it would appear to form a "ransom strip" - i.e. the association could demand quite a large sum to grant the access. If this is the case, it might be worth the association engaging an agent with experience of this type of situation to negotiate a fair price. (I think a rule of thumb in the old days was that the ransom strip was worth about 25% of the development value of the land, but this may not apply in this sort of case.)
1. He gives a right of way over part of the land which goes with the house, so that the new house can be accessed from his present entrance. (This may not be possible - depends on the layout of the land.)
2. The new house has to have its access over the grass verge. If this verge is owned by the residents association & 1 above is not possible it would appear to form a "ransom strip" - i.e. the association could demand quite a large sum to grant the access. If this is the case, it might be worth the association engaging an agent with experience of this type of situation to negotiate a fair price. (I think a rule of thumb in the old days was that the ransom strip was worth about 25% of the development value of the land, but this may not apply in this sort of case.)
The Residents Association does not own the verge. Each owner is notionally responsible for (but does not own) the footpath, verge and road (either halfway or right across depending upon whether there are houses both sides) for the length of their frontage (whether or not it is written into their registration). The owner can simply construct a crossover through the verge to access the property as a right.
I half agree with Mustafa, but all would be made clear from the title plan. Each owner may own a section of the road.
In other words it may show as you owning a section of this private road (and likewise for the other owners including this selling neighbour) with a right/permission for all of you to pass and repass over all the land that forms the private road. Usually there's another clause about obligations to maintain the private road that falls jointly on all parties.
If you've got this in your title and this neighbour's land abuts the private road /verge, its his land to the middle of the road.
In other words it may show as you owning a section of this private road (and likewise for the other owners including this selling neighbour) with a right/permission for all of you to pass and repass over all the land that forms the private road. Usually there's another clause about obligations to maintain the private road that falls jointly on all parties.
If you've got this in your title and this neighbour's land abuts the private road /verge, its his land to the middle of the road.
I agree with buildersmate - if what he indicates is in the title deeds of each property there is no problem in the owner creating a new access.
But if it is not and the residents association can prove they themselves as a legal entity do own the road and verge (which would involve the association either having registered title or original title deeds in their name) then the situation could be different. If this is the case the association should have a constitution or other documentation setting out the rights & responsibilities of the association and the property owners. (Ideally, this should itself be referred to in the title deeds of the individual properties.) This documentation ought to cover what should happen in the situation described.
But if it is not and the residents association can prove they themselves as a legal entity do own the road and verge (which would involve the association either having registered title or original title deeds in their name) then the situation could be different. If this is the case the association should have a constitution or other documentation setting out the rights & responsibilities of the association and the property owners. (Ideally, this should itself be referred to in the title deeds of the individual properties.) This documentation ought to cover what should happen in the situation described.
Which bit of the above is in your opinion 'tripe', Mustafa - your bit, my bit or Themas' bit? You tend to have a habit of making initial assertions on these legal questions, then not coming back later to clarify your answer.
The bit that is 'tripe' (to use your phrase) is the idea that a private road has no legal owner - it's possible on a really old development that has grown up over time on a lane (non-highway) but unlikely on a 1950s development. IMHO it is most likely that the ownership of the road was carved up into pieces, or the original development builder still has ownership (if done by a single developer).
The bit that is 'tripe' (to use your phrase) is the idea that a private road has no legal owner - it's possible on a really old development that has grown up over time on a lane (non-highway) but unlikely on a 1950s development. IMHO it is most likely that the ownership of the road was carved up into pieces, or the original development builder still has ownership (if done by a single developer).
No developer (or anyone else) in his right mind retains ownership of an estate road where the development is complete, and I have never come across one alone and on it's own on a non-managed completed estate with a defined single owner who has no interest in anything other than a dead loss of a road. I had already fully dealt with a private road "carved up into pieces" - it doesn't require you to repeat it and keep repeating it. Frankly, both you and themas are in la la land.
For goddness sake, if you are lawyers then show some professionalism! You are all basing your opinions on very limited information provided by riprock. Until you have had sight of the title then it remains a mystery. Interestingly, no-one has mentioned the possibility the land could be common land which adds another pin to the cushion.
Very true, Law1.
The Common Land answer is a possibility but a remote one. Successive Road Traffic Acts since about 1930 have made it unlawful to take a motor vehicle more than a few yards off the public highway onto common land. Whilst many old properties built before people had motor vehicles may have this legal issue with their vehicle access, by the 1950s this is unlikely to have been allowed to happen. IMHO of course.
The Common Land answer is a possibility but a remote one. Successive Road Traffic Acts since about 1930 have made it unlawful to take a motor vehicle more than a few yards off the public highway onto common land. Whilst many old properties built before people had motor vehicles may have this legal issue with their vehicle access, by the 1950s this is unlikely to have been allowed to happen. IMHO of course.
On the contrary Mustafa, I have recently been working for the local Authority and we are always having problems with developers who do not apply for the roads around their developments to be 'adopted' for years and the residents do not realise until they want an abandoned vehicle removed or other such things and find that they are still a private road. And I am talking about massive developments not just little roads.
Calm down, people.
First, look at title deeds (especially pre-registration of title at HM Land Registry). They should show clearly the extent of ownership.
Second, there are rules about highway land. Frontagers are presumed to own up to middle line(unless first sale deed expressly excludes this presumption). Obviously that highway ownership is largely irrelevant once road is adopted- but this one isn't.
First, look at title deeds (especially pre-registration of title at HM Land Registry). They should show clearly the extent of ownership.
Second, there are rules about highway land. Frontagers are presumed to own up to middle line(unless first sale deed expressly excludes this presumption). Obviously that highway ownership is largely irrelevant once road is adopted- but this one isn't.
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