Unbiased thoughts on shocking dog collars.

[Bigeye74]

Following on from a debate with lankeela does anyone have an unbiased opinion based on experience rather than emotion on the use of shocking dog collars?

My personal experiences are very positive along with several friends.
However some other friends bought a collar and used it without following the instructions and unfortunately hurt the dog. This was entirely there fault as the set came with a DVD
and the retailer stressed its viewing first.

[kita1]

http://www.k9community.co.uk/forums/index.php? showtopic=27576

Another discussion about shock collars - note the answer regarding a farmer using one for his hound dog worrying sheep! Dog ended up being put to sleep!

How does a shock collar NOT hurt the dog? The dog responds because it feels pain!

[Bigeye74]

The instructions state the you start with the intensity at its lowest and increase it until you get a reaction from the dog. This should be equivalent to a stern check on a choke chain. I have no doubt that can be abused though.
The extra strength came in handy once though when someone had left a gate open and she shot through it after a dog on the other side of the road. The gate is always closed for security reasons and there was no way she was stopping. Thanks to the collar she is alive and I'm not paying for the consequences of a traffic accident.

[happy_face]

unbiased... hmmm... but you're obviously biased. I would consider myself unbiased as I don't have any experience with using them and that's purely because I would never endorse products like that. I use Positive reinforcement training and not shocking or forcing dogs to do things.

What was the "problem" with your dog since you sought out this method? Did you perhaps contact a trainer first before deciding on such a collar?

[lankeela]

The problem is happy face, bigeye would consider you biased as you do not endorse them and would never use them. In fact anyone who doesn't agree with bigeye must be biased!

[Bigeye74]

I'm not unbiased, I just don't like people that mate uninformed decisions and then use phases like 'what kind of person would do such a thing'. I have seen first hand the damage these collars can do and also the good they can do which is how I formed an opinion. Does positive reinforcement work in every case and with every dog? I honestly don't know but then maybe negative reinforcement doesn't either.
The problem with my dog was (and is) when she gets a target in sight she gets tunnel vision and theres no stopping her. I'm quite happy to take advice and have done my best to educate myself on the matter.
The collar worked, very well and the dog gets praised when it returns.

[happy_face]

Hey Bigeye, I'm not here to have a go as each to their own and the collar obviously works for you. But what I would ask though is does your girl usually come back when called when she doesn't get the "tunnel vision"?
Did you train recall with her? When I started training with my girl the first thing we were taught is that if you don't get 100% clear recalls you should never have your dog off the lead. So we were taught the recall techniques and they have been practised and practised and even more practised. In every situation and every distraction and she now comes at first call EVERY time. I know how frustrating it can be when you stand and shout and shout and you see your dog getting further and further away and even just basic obedience takes hours and months but then no one said it would be easy having a dog.
My girl had a thing about eating poo when out and it was getting so bad that I was seriously considering one of the collars which sprays a puff of air when the remote was pressed as she wouldn't listen.
But I decided to perservere with "Leave It" training and now 2 months down the line she no longer scavenges.

[poopy]

Like you say when my dog gets her target in sight thats it and for at least 10mins after its gone, by which time the leather sofa is scratched to death and the curtains, blinds and wallpaper are shredded. The collar i selected was not a shock as in an electric shock it gave a sound alert first then if the dog barked again within 30seconds it gave a tingle - a strange sensation so the dogs concerntration was broken. My partner tried it on himself. I would only recomend one if you selected carefully and knew exactly how the product worked. There are other ways like hard peas in a bottle and shake violently when the dog goes on one! But i have used a collar - sorry if i upset any of you do gooder's. I do love my dog and would love her even more if she wasnt sooooo annoying and bark crazily at everything that goes past our window.

[pmjblue]

mmmmmmmmm.....interesting, but cannot understand why anyone would want to use a shocking dog collar. Having had dogs all my life, some naughtier than others, it has never crossed my mind to use one of these. You need to establish yourself as the pack leader, by following basic exercises. Unfortunately I am not the pack leader in our house, but my husband is, and has total control - I would also add that he has never ever smacked them, or raised his voice, and they love him to bits. On the other hand, I have to shut them outside when I get the hoover out as they think it is an alien, and as they think I am one of them, are obviously trying to save me from this noisy monster! - they also bark like crazy when someone comes down the drive, but once frightened off someone trying to steal the car, so who am I to argue!

[Bigeye74]

Training started with puppy classes for socialisation, did nothing for obedience though.
Her recall without distraction was always good. I now have to catch before she makes her mind up to go. Once shes gone, she's gone, generally to return after a quick hello. Her leave is perfect and trained every day along with basic obedience.
All the books I have read on her breed state that the females do NOT exibit the faithfulness of there male counterparts.
I found positive reinforcement difficult as she doesn't look for praise or food.
I don't generally believe in physical punishment because a) the crime has generally been committed and b) she's hard as nails.
The collar allows correction during the crime and just works.
I don't believe positive reinforcement works on every dog and that breed plays its part. Is this correct?

[pmjblue]

i would persevere with the recall on a long training/scenting lead - an old washing line would do the trick. I can appreciate that the collar saved her life once, but if you hadnt been around, you wouldnt have been able to press whatever button you need to in order to give the shock when she ran across the road. I am not sure my dogs would come back if they got out of the front door, but that is because they would be nosey, and then get frightened so possibly bolt, so we are just careful. What breed of dog are we talking about here?

[Bigeye74]

Rhodesian Ridgeback. Her recall is good in almost all situations. Its only an issue on the odd occasion. Even when she does run off, she says hello to whatever shes after then returns. I believe people hae similar problem with greyhounds.

[Bigeye74]

I meant to add the the collar was used constructively in training the return. If she came straight away, no action and praise. If she pays no attention she gets a low intensity zap which is equivalent to an itch. Once attention is gained no more zap. Intensity is turned up until attention is gained, generally a 30% max power - likened to a sharp tug on a chain.