Predicting the future

[Lonnie]

Does anyone on this site, really believe that its possible to accurately predict the future?.

I'll explain the reason for this question later, including my thinking on it.

[chakka35]

Before some of you get started on tealeaf-reading and chicken entrails, here's a rational thought about predicting the future:

Theists like to claim that their God is both omniscient and omnipotent. But logic states that he cannot be both.

If God is omniscient then he knows in advance every thought he is going to have, every decision he is going to make and every act he is going to commit from here to eternity.
This means that he cannot change his mind at any time in the future without invalidating that prescience.
Therefore he is not omnipotent. QED.

Discuss.

[eleanswers]

The abstract theories are interesting.
Theland thanks for your interest. It's good to share experience and info. I don't want to hog this thread though. Naomi, I doubt my thoughts intercepted the bombers minds, I can't buy that one, sorry to disappoint.. it was more like I was being told a story and the message was: this time it would be ok.

To predict the future and to be able to change it, one would never know if the prediction was indeed that, if it never happend because of intervention, the prediction wouldn't stand up..
If a course of action can prevent a prediction this would have to be precise information, and I know of none to date, People who claim to have this insight, base there evidence on 'loose' information.
If a person said a certain volcano would errup at a certain time and date and people would be killed, then took steps to remove these people and the volcano did indeed erupt and the people were saved. That's something. But it doesn't happen.
The question posed can't be answered. We can speculate, debate & present theories. Which is very interesting, but we haven't a clue. What's also interesting is: Why do we not know? Is it because there is nothing to know, or is it because this information is being kept from us?

[naomi24]

ele, I'm not disappointed you don't buy that. I haven't the foggiest idea why these things happen - I was merely musing.

You asked if the information is being kept from us. Who do you think might be keeping it from us?

Hello Chakka, who's getting into tealeaf reading then? Not you I hope! Oh dear, you are missing the quiz!

Since I don't believe in the god you're talking about, although I would agree with your logic, I am unable to honestly discuss. Sorry.

[mibn2cweus]

To say that "the future can not be accurately predicted" is itself a prediction and therefore a contradictory statement. I can predict with a high degree of certainty that when I click on the submit! button this will be posted in this thread but no matter how likely that outcome only its fulfillment guarantees success. That is the purpose of a guarantee; to provide recourse in the event of an unforeseeable circumstance.

There are many things that can be predicted with a high degree of certainty when the necessary knowledge of the causal factors influencing an outcome is available. This is what science gives us the ability to do with an astonishingly high degree of success, however history has demonstrated time and again that there will always be more to learn.

To believe that one has no control over one�s life, that one�s destiny is carved in stone from the moment of one�s birth, is a belief of choice that I can safely predict will have a profound effect on fulfilling such a prophecy.

[luna-tic]

I believe that many people can sometimes act as a form of conduit for otherwise unexplainable events; To see or communicate with the deceased, hear voices, talk with spirit guides, automatic writing, predict the future and so on, but the biggest mystery is why is the information channelled through certain individuals if we are unable to act upon it or use it, especially in the cases of predicting disasters yet to happen?

[naomi24]

Luna, I agree - I do think some people have some sort of inexplicable instinct, but when someone does accurately predict a disaster, no one takes them seriously, which is why it isn't acted upon. But then how can anyone take them seriously? That would mean every single prediction would need to be taken seriously and evasive measures put in place - and in the great majority of cases it would be for nothing, because I imagine most 'predictions' turn out to be false alarms.

[Theland]

chacka35's conundrum is similar to the old one - "Can God create an object so vast that He couldn't move it?"

The argument goes, that if God can't create such an object, then He is not omniscient. If He can, and so can't move it, then He is not omnipotent.

But, when you take account of the,"silliness factor," then it's not something that makes sense, ans so God wouldn't be drawn into this.

[mibn2cweus]

I predict that God never existed . . . <"?

[Theland]

Mibs - doesn't it bother you having NO explanation for "the world as we know it?"

[mibn2cweus]

Theland, The usefulness of knowledge can be relegated to specific categories:
1. Proven consistent with all other experience providing a high level of reliability in application.
2. Likely but requiring further confirmation to be reliable.
3. Not consistent with experience and therefore unable to confirm.
4. No apparent correlation to reality.
5. Confirmed to contradict the combined integration of previous knowledge providing a high confidence of unreliability based on previous experience.

By adhering to these basis principles I have gathered a coherent picture of the world as it is that works quite well for planning and choosing the course of action I should take as changing circumstances arise. When all else fails I have found it better to admit I do not know and sit I out until I do than to follow the lead of those who are unable or unwilling to relate the nature of their �certainty�, especially when they have a discouraging track record of unreliability and unsatisfactory consequences.

Lack of knowledge does not justify belief although evasive action is sometimes indicated until the required knowledge is acquired.

Experience shows that the place to search for explanations of reality is within the confines of reality. So far none have been satisfactorily provided elsewhere, (not that I haven�t looked and miraculously survived such searches . . . or have I?) ~ ~ ~ <o/�\o>

[naomi24]

mib, beautifully put - if I may say so.

[mibn2cweus]

naomi, like I could stop you if I wanted to, lol. As always, thanks for the critique/s, good or bad, always welcome and yours helpful and much appreciated.

[Theland]

..... and I love the logo.

[chakka35]

Theland, what I gave you was not a conundrum; it was a piece of pure unassailable logic. Your only choice is to counter it - which you'll find impossible - or to accept that nothing, not your god or any other, can be both omniscient and omnipotent.