Original Birth Register entries

[taffinnorfol]

Does anyone know where I can see the ORIGINAL entries in the Register of Births? My problem is that I and another person have exactly the same (unusual) name on one of our parent's birth certificates. Both named grandfathers were the informants but we want to find out conclusively, without DNA tests, whether the named grandfathers are actually the same person (and therefore whether we are related!). Both grandfathers (if there WERE two!), disappeared early in the life of our fathers! We have tried the GRO but they say they have no access to the original registers!!!

[JK2]

The birth would have been registered locally at the registrar's office where the birth took place.

Have you tried The Family Records Centre at Islington, London. You can go there and look at the entries.

http://www.familyrecords.gov.uk/frc/

[taffinnorfol]

Thanks JK2. I did try the local Register Offices but was sent round in circles! The suggestion about the FRC at Islington is a great lead and I will follow it up!

[scatty mare]

The original handwritten entries are on the full birth certificates, which include the names of the informants...or have I completely misunderstood your question? And the Family Records Centre holds the index reference numbers for BMD applications, but not the original records. Each birth, post July 1837 will be recorded with the Registrar of the district where the birth took place, with a copy being sent to the General Register Office http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

[taffinnorfol]

Hi scatty mare,
Many thanks for the reply. It is the ORIGINAL signatures that I need, not the information, which is on the certified copies and I already have! The original certificates are lost so the only potential source is the original register entry. I have tried the local Register Offices and the GRO but cannot get access to the ORIGINAL Registers!!!
The grandfather in question was a Greek in London around WW1 and appears to have lived a "Walter Mitty" life with two different families!! The signature will prove that both were him rather than someone simply using the name!

[spudqueen]

Why don't you just order copies of the certificates? The ones I get these days are a photocopy of the originals showing the original signatures. I know a few years ago I would get certificates that had the information typed in but as I've said that doesn't seem to be the case these days.

[taffinnorfol]

hi spudqueen,
Many thanks but I have already got (very recent) certified copies of the Entries. Sadly they are photocopies of transcribed information from the original Entries so do not show the original signatures of informants as they are in the Registrar's handwriting. Nice try though!

[spudqueen]

Would the relevant registry office have their original records? It may be worth asking them.

[dot.hawkes]

The original register is at the local register office, the ones at the GRO are copies, if any signatures were done, (and bear in mind only informants signed on birth and death and only bride groom and witnesses signed the registers for marriage,) then the local register office will be able to photocopy the original entry.

[taffinnorfol]

Hi dot.hawkes and thank you. I have tried the local Register Offices and have been referred back to the GRO but I will persist. The local offices are probably bogged down with the new genealogy craze and don't have the staff to deal with queries like mine! Ho hum!

[spudqueen]

I have just looked out some of my copy certificates and the wedding certificates I ordered last year from the Lancashire registry office place are copies of the original certificates - I ordered a copy of my parents marriage certificate, and those are definately their signatures on there!

[taffinnorfol]

Hi spudqueen, Thanks again. I have also checked my copy birth certificates obtained within the last month and they are not in the original handwriting. I think perhaps it depends on the individual Register Office. I am dealing with births in London and keep being referred back to the GRO for copies and they only have transcribed, not original register entries and Indexes. I have made personal approaches and keep being stone-walled. Guess I'll just have to keep trying. Thanks for your help-appreciated!

[taffinnorfol]

I have tries the Family Records Centre at Islington but their bmd certificates come via the GRO and are therefore copies of the transcribed, not original, entries and do not show original signatures as a result! It's hard to get responses from local Register Offices. They tend to refer you back to the GRO where they have the resurces to dig out and supply certifed copy certificates!

[NikkiB]

Hi Taffin, I have no practical advice to offer as it all matched that given by other posters. I am currently trying to trace through my father's side of the tree but I seem to be hitting blank walls all the time. Different pay per view websites offer different info, different birthdates or complete omissions. My only conclusion is that it was very easy for people to lie to census officials, be it for personal or professional reasons. Even a tired registrar could have made a mistake that causes headaches generations later. My great grandmother exists on one website but not on any other, unless she'd been inaccurate about her place of birth and had anglicised her name from it's French original. It's terribly frustrating and I hope you reach a satisfactory outcome. Geneaology always throws up weird and wonderful ancestors and yours appears to be no exception!
Good luck!

[taffinnorfol]

Hi NikkiB, Thanks - I know the problems! My father's mother was French and his father was an Ottoman (now regarded as Greek but with a splash of Macedonian and a dribble of Turkish (sounds like an exotic cocktail!!!). It's a funny time for genealogy because such web-based information is really in its infancy. Our children's children will probably only have to do a Google search by specific name and the family tree will appear, magically, on the screen with all details pretty much correct. You'd think my family names - Taxil (French) and Lionda or Liondas (Ottoman) would be simple because they're unusual but you wouldn't believe the amount of checking, cross checking and research through the National Archives and shipping records it has taken to date! I have found many, many lies and half truths! Trying to find where someone foreign died and was buried abroad is a REAL lulu!!! Good luck with your research and thanks for the reply.

[dot.hawkes]

If the certified copy certificate is photocopied directly from the register it will show the signatures of all parties, as i have a few myself like that, but if it is a typed one that the office supply, or a handwrotten one of course then it will not be, the only one originally signed is the one at the register office, the one sent to the GRO is a copy filled in by the registrar and will not have the original signatures. In the case of a Catholic or some non-conformist marriages however, there are two registers to sign, the Registrar in attendance brings the civil register and the Church or Chapel has it's own.

[Dolly1308]

Taffin ,don't know if this idea is of any use to you but if you know this other person why not have your DNA tested to see if there is a connection?

[Dolly1308]

Sorry about my last post I didn't read your question properly the first time !!!