border collies

[electricblue]

last night we 'aquired' a 9 week old border collie pup,,today it has just had a go at our 15 yr old boy, for going near his toy,,does this mean its the beginning of a downward slope,or is their a sure fire way to stop that behaviour dead,,at the minute the kids r very wary of him and being a border he needs toys and stimulation,,,even our rotties were pussycats ,,

[lankeela]

Oh dear. By the term 'acquired' I assume you had not planned to get him, or not got him from a reputable breeder and know all about his background?

It is very early days, so I would suggest you give him a space of his own to play in, such as a cage, puppy pen, or even a section of the kitchen cornered off, until you have given him time to learn his position in the 'pack'. When he is out make sure the old boy has a chance to get away from him, and don't let the pup play with toys in the older dog's presence.

If he is being aggressive to the kids, then I would seriously consider returning him to where you got him from, as this is not normal behaviour for any 9 week old puppy, provided of course that the kids are treating him with respect.

[jules77]

Is the 15 year old boy your son or your older dog?

I dont think it is the end of the road, as you need to stop the behaviour now before it gets worse - he may have had a poor start to his life as you havnt said how your acquired him?

Only reservation I have is that I had a border collie many years ago that turned on my son, however, the dog was provoked, but to save any problems my mother took care of her. Border collies arnt the best breed with children, but certainly not the worst and can be trained as they are very intelligent. They do however need oodles of exercise and stimulation.

[amonty1144]

Hi, It is unusual for a 9 week old pup to bite in an aggressive manner, at this age they still tend to be playing. If it was an attack, I would suggest you return it from whence it came. Collies are not the most stable of dogs, they are working dogs and not best suited to a family environment (I'm sure others will disagree). I've had collies as working dogs over the years and never had an aggressive biter with people. Dogs from farms tend to be less stable.
That said my cousin has a collie and that would bite anyone, definitely not safe with children.
I hope this helps.

[electricblue]

by 15 yr old boy,, i am talking about my son,,but that said,,its only with his toy a red and grey mouse thing that belongs to the cat,,,wivout a toy around him,,he just wants kisses,,the dog not my boy,lol,,,he werent planned,but we had a call yesterday,there was a litter of 6 and he wanted them all homed,,,maybe we too soft but we took him,,,,we would really like to perservere with him,,and turn him into an obedient and friendly,trustworthy pet,,,

[Franticfran]

I've had a Border Collie, and a Collie/German Shepherd mix. Both turned out faithful, gentle softies. Except, the second one, on command , grabbed an interloping fox in a friend's chicken pen. It almost shocked us, but he went back to his gentle self after the farmer gave him a reward drink of milk. In 16 years it was the only aggression he showed.
In your case, in my humble opinion, you must take over first the role of the pup's mum, and swipe it one, as she would , if any behaviour is unacceptable. I agree with other poster, that it is primarily a play tactic, but instead of taking a lump out of a litter mate, it tried to do so to your son. Your son, however at 15, shoudl know better than to torment a tiny baby dog, and equally is old enough to train as trainer for the dog. So don't let the kids be wary of the dog or vice versa. Then later, you become the pack leader as was said. You know rotties can be softies, so if you trained them - you just do the same, If you didn't, get their trainer to guide you. Finally, I would never give up on an animal that age. Train him to be tolerant, even when he's eating, so there's no risk to strangers or children. Remember the TV trainers, and that there's usually no such thing as bad dogs, just bad owners !! I hope the cap doesn't fit, and that this is a little help.

[electricblue]

yea fran,,lol,but my son wasnt tormenting,,he was doing what we do wiv all pups,playing with him,,my boy is thinking maybe the pup was surprised by him or as the pups sisters were bigger than him maybe he's used to having to fight for what he want,,,anyway,wiv rotts u have to show authority in the first year,same with these,we did train our rotts and in my opinion done a damn fine job,lol,,so no we dont wanna give up on him,,and gonna try our hardest xx

[leelapops]

Hi blue, I agree with what's been said here. Just to say we have a 3 yo BC, a delight, but not a "family" pet in the conventional sense. It sounds as if you are aware how much stimulation they need, so it won't be too much of a surprise when you return from 3 hour walks to find your dog is only just warming up!

I am surprised he's so possessive so early on, but I guess if he was a smaller/weaker dog in the litter, he probably did have to learn to get in there first! He just needs to realise that this isn't acceptable in his new pack, and that he doesn't need to respond this way.

I know you have had dogs before from what you say; not sure what methods you used. Rotties are quite robust, aren't they? Collies tend to be quite sensitive, you have to really train with love and respect. A lot of people will recommend Jan Fennell's book, the Dog Listener. It's a great way of learning how to see things from dog's perspective.

Lots of luck; I know I am biased but I LOVE Collies! x

[electricblue]

thnx lee,,,i do want him to be good in the family,i know that means lots of walk and exercise too and prepared to do that,,,he seems to love giving kisses and his tail is always wagging,,,its just when he had this toy,,which was the cats in actual fact,that he did what he did,we've now removed them,,

[bimbo123456]

We took on a five month old collie some time ago. She was a nightmare when we got her. Even snapped at my Dad. We still have to be very careful with her although she has calmed down (is now 7 years old). You might try watching the dog programmes on TV. Two important things....never feed the dog before you eat, even if it is a biscuit (it is important that the dog sees your son eat before him too) Also, when returning to the house always enter before the dog. Can't remember if you have younger children? I would definitely think about rehoming your pup if there are small people about. Think about getting a soft muzzle just in case when you are out walking. Collies are a joy in what they can be trained to do but a disaster if they are bored. Lots of luck

[GypsyGSD]

I cant see what the problem is as yet you have a 9 week old puppy who has just left his and mum and litter mates in the order of things he must have been confident to put his bothers and sisters in there place so they backed off mum was there to sort things out if he oversteped the mark with her you have had him for 24 hours and you think you may have a problem already are you sure this is the breed for you all you son had to do was tell the pup no and take the toy and put it away, in a quiet confident manner the pup as yet has to learn who is the alphas in the pack and where he stands in the pecking order a frim no or leave it will do to start him of with and plenty or fuss when hes good and when he is naughty encourage him away with treats or another toy which is his to play with you can reinforce this by various method clicker training is very good as collies are quick to learn have a look at ceaser millan web sites where a lot of info is given and I advice puppy scholl and dog training classes GypsyGSDx

[GypsyGSD]

just to add did you expect the pup to no that the toy was the cats he will learn given time and patience what is right and wrong , which are his toys ,which are yours what is aceptable and what is not , remember you can run a collie 20 miles a day but if you dont work his mind you may have problems

[babybeak]

9 weeks old seems to be very young for the puppy to have left his mother already. Dogs naturally live in packs, they learn behaviour from others in the pack. You and your family are now his new pack and you need to teach him that he is at the bottom of the pecking order. If he nips (or any other behaviour you don't want) then a short, sharp noise should be enough to tell him that this behaviour is unacceptable. You must also be consistent and ALWAYS berate bad behaviour, and reward good behaviour of course!

[electricblue]

no gypsy,,i did not expect the pup to know whose toys they r,,i was simply saying after hearing people saying 'oh no'he's a collie,he shouldnt do that at 9 weeks,i came on here and asked a question,,,all our lives we've had gsd's and rotts,,this is a new experience,,but we are prepared for it,,thanks to all for yr replies!!

[GypsyGSD]

I to have owned ,trained and worked gsds for a number of years at present i have two gsds and a border collie at the moment, and I was not having a go, the collies are are total different temperment to the large breeds and need different handling I am sure in time if you work with your collie your mind will be at rest they can be a nightmare but if trained correct they are a pleasure , I really do wish you well with your new pup Gypsyx

[electricblue]

no worries gypsy,,i know the temps r different,,but im looking forward to doing this,,,,and determined to do it right,xx thnx all

[GypsyGSD]

Just wondered how things are going, have they settled down. GypsyX

[electricblue]

hey gypsy,,he doing good,,he's fetching and dropping,,he's a right character,,has made good friends with the cat,,they wear each other out,,cant wait now till he can go out and we can start wiv the agility,,and the major exercise,,watch this space,lol xxx

[GypsyGSD]

Hi so glad all is going ok, he is a bit young for agility but you can both have fun watching for now, Im having a few mouthing problems at moment with my gsd pup hes 12 weeks old and a nightmare lol but im loving it keep me informed how its going as I would love to hear how he progresses from GypsyX