True or false?

[Tichman]

I watched a documentary on Discovery about the coliseum how it was built and the all the cruel games the romans thought up. I was suprised when the narrator said although the romans loved blood sports, the game of throwing all christians to the lions,tigers etc was not true. It was,in fact a myth concocted by the catholic church. Friends of ours saw the coliseum in March and during the tour were told that christians were used as human torches to light up the arena for chariot racing at night. Can anyone shed any light on this so called myth? I always thought it was fact! thanks.

[Clanad]

Most of the reports of Christian persecution are of Roman origin. Tacitus wrote "...Therefore to scotch the rumour [that Nero had burned the city himself], Nero substituted as culprits, and punished with the utmost refinements of cruelty, a class of men, loathed for their vices, whom the crowd styled Christians..." this is relation to the Great fire of AD64, far earlier than any existence of the Roman Catholic church, which is, generally thought to have been 'founded' in perhaps AD 461 or so by most authorities... long after the persecutions reached their zenith...

[Tichman]

Thanks for the info Clanad. Oddly enough I watched part of the re runs about Nero.

[jake-the-peg]

You have to be careful here.

Clanad's description is probably the most popular one but it's not the only one.

We have almost no ancient books like Tacitus in original and medieval monastries were not above some modifications and misinterpretations are possible when making copies. - I'd imagine this is the sort of Catholic conspiracy your guide had in mind.

Here for example is a differing opinion:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/eric_la upot/nazoreans.html

He doubts Tacitus' Christiani are actually Christians.

[Clanad]

Except that the quote I've presented is the last part of the Tacitus report... the fist part details thusly:

"... Neither human resources, nor imperial generosity, nor appeasement of the gods, eliminated the sinister suspicion that the fire had been deliberately started. To stop the rumor, Nero, made scapegoats--and punished with every refinement the notoriously depraved Christians (as they were popularly called). Their originator, Christ, had been executed in Tiberius' reign by the Procurator of Judaea, Pontius Pilatus (who was actually a Praefectus, not a Procurator). But in spite of this temporary setback, the deadly superstition had broken out again, not just in Judaea (where the mischief had started) but even in Rome. All degraded and shameful practices collect and flourish in the capital. First, Nero had the self-admitted Christians arrested. Then, on their information, large numbers of others were condemned--not so much for starting fires as because of their hatred for the human race. Their deaths were made amusing." (Source: Tacitus: The Annals; Agricola and the Germania) Additionally, Seutonius is supportive of the reports: "... "punishments were also inflicted on the Christians, a sect professing a new and mischievous religious belief." (Source: United Nations of Roma Victrix: Roman History)

[Tichman]

Thanks for the link jake-the peg. Very interesting reading. I still think it's fact about the christians being victims of those blood thirsty romans. thanks both for your interest!

[deadlock]

nero,,crazy man .but he has burnt a lot of discs.deadlock

[Octavius]

It is quite likely that Christians were persecuted by the Romans using wild animals, or other means. There is no real evidence to suggest that this happened at the Colloseum. It occurred at Gallia though.

The evidence of this persecution is a letter preserved by Eusebius. The letter is from the Christians of Vienna and Lugdunum in Gallia (Lyon) to their Christian brethren in Asia and Phrygia; and it is preserved nearly entire. It contains a very particular description of the torture and death inflicted on the Christians in the amphitheatre at Gallia. The Christians who were Roman citizens were beheaded: the rest exposed to the wild beasts in the amphitheatre.

�Sanctus was burnt with plates of hot iron till his body was one sore and had lost all human form, but on being put to the rack he recovered his former appearance under the torture, which was thus a cure instead of a punishment. He was afterwards torn by beasts, and placed on an iron chair and roasted. He died at last.�

Whilst the 'martyrdom' may have been embellished and there is no written record of it at the Collosseum, it is likely that it could have happened to Christians, vagrants, prisoners or anyone out of favour in that particular week.

[fletcher.5]

These so called games were the embryo of todays Olympics

[Octavius]

"And now, representing Britain in the 'Outrunning an Extremely Hungry and Angry Lion' event is .....Pete Doherty"

...if only.....!

[jake-the-peg]

I think you (and Clanad) are probably right.

It's just that you can't take anything for granted especially when it was so long ago.

It's always worth asking how many sources there were for the information - whether they were independant ( or copied off of each other) whether they were likely to be biased and whether the source is original or could anybody could have interfered .

Sometimes our knowledge of "facts" comes from earlier interpretations that were less careful and just got repeated a lot.

All these gladiators fighting to the death for example