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Will The Silent Majority of Muslims Please Speak Up?
Having seen yet another anti-muslim rant on AB I felt compelled to ask this question. I believe that as usual, it is the VOCAL MINORITY of muslims who shout the loudest, egged on by the media of course to grab the headlines. These people do the SILENT MAJORITY of muslims no favours. In fact I think it has the opposite effect. and turns frightened , ignorant people into racists.I have met a lot of muslim people due to my work, and have found them to be not very much different to us natives of England. ( I am sure I will have offended SOMEONE with that description) They just want to get on with their lives, just like the rest of us. They have a sense of humour , love of family, are well educated. They contribute a lot to society. Unfortunately these people do not make the headlines. Only those with extremist points of view do that. As a consequence, the general public think that ALL muslims hold extremist views.
I must add that PC , whilst in theory is a good thing. It really has taken away the right to free speech, which causes resentment and fuels racism, the very opposite to what it was meant to do. It is almost impossible to have a debate these days without being accused of some ......ism.
I must add that PC , whilst in theory is a good thing. It really has taken away the right to free speech, which causes resentment and fuels racism, the very opposite to what it was meant to do. It is almost impossible to have a debate these days without being accused of some ......ism.
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Shadowman: Please endulge me for a moment. I�d like to address your commentary line by line so as not to miss anything: My responses are as a Christian. Therefore, some may suggest that I am not �qualified; to speak of other faiths. I might be able to challenge that. However, this isn�t about playing games over who is more learned or who has all the answers. It is merely a personal reflection. And, of course, I am the world�s greatest expert at my own opinion.
Errrrrr, maybe not from you, but I hope you are not implying that "us" includes decent Englishmen like me!!!!
For starters:
I do not worship a foul God and his boyfrond mohammed.
We worship the same God. So I�m a bit confused here. Muslims believe in Jesus Christ. Where they are often perplexed is with those who have no faith.
I do not stone people to death for being gay or outspoken.
We jolly well did. Now, we have other methodologies.
I do not publicly hang women for being adulterous.
Some men simply beat them to death�regardless of the fact they�ve been unfaithful throughout the marriage.
I like to see women�s faces.
So do I. But I think your point is reference to social decisions, not religious ones. I like women�s hair.
I do not rape children in the name of my God.
Clearly you have not been up on recent media. There are a number of zealots who do this very thing�AND they lock them in cages, closets, and beat them into respecting God.
I do not rape women who are not of my religion
Only those outside of it?
I do not starve myself for a month every year.
Pity you don�t understand how Christ saw fasting as a way to cleanse himself. What do ...or don't you do during Lent?
Continued:
Errrrrr, maybe not from you, but I hope you are not implying that "us" includes decent Englishmen like me!!!!
For starters:
I do not worship a foul God and his boyfrond mohammed.
We worship the same God. So I�m a bit confused here. Muslims believe in Jesus Christ. Where they are often perplexed is with those who have no faith.
I do not stone people to death for being gay or outspoken.
We jolly well did. Now, we have other methodologies.
I do not publicly hang women for being adulterous.
Some men simply beat them to death�regardless of the fact they�ve been unfaithful throughout the marriage.
I like to see women�s faces.
So do I. But I think your point is reference to social decisions, not religious ones. I like women�s hair.
I do not rape children in the name of my God.
Clearly you have not been up on recent media. There are a number of zealots who do this very thing�AND they lock them in cages, closets, and beat them into respecting God.
I do not rape women who are not of my religion
Only those outside of it?
I do not starve myself for a month every year.
Pity you don�t understand how Christ saw fasting as a way to cleanse himself. What do ...or don't you do during Lent?
Continued:
Part 2
I eat pork.
Are you suggesting that Judaism has some inherent flaw because they too do not eat the flesh of animals that happily consume rubbish and pretty much anything else they put before them?
I do not pray 2000 times a day.
Neither do I in a setting, but just about that much in fleeting seconds�See�I�ve just said a prayer for you. But structure-wise, Just like with Islam, there IS a set schedule of prayer. It�s available on-line if you�d like me to guide you to it!
I love the West and its associated freedoms
Freedoms are often subjective thoughts and certainly paradoxical. America, for example, it�s the �Land of the Free.� However, this free country has more laws, per capita, than any country in the world! It rather takes the sails out of the word �Free.� And just try and tell the US Government that you�ve decided to visit Cuba. They�ll tell you that they forbid you to do so!
I am not a terrorist.
Terrorism takes on many faces. I�m sure you are not. But espousing inflammatory dogma can lead you and others in that direction.
I do not have a silly beard with no moustache
I have a friend who�s a Hasidic Jew. I�m going to have to tell Chaim that I�ve just learned that his beard and moustache are considered silly by �Britains in the know�
I do not scroung off the government
Perhaps scrounge? Are you referring to Muslims or the eleven million people who simply can�t be bothered to leave their Jeremy Kyle shows and go out and work?
I have never been involved in terrorism
You are right now!
Thank you for NOT saying this evil and wicked faith is like US!!!!!
Faith is not evil. However, faith in the wrong things can seriously infect a balanced society. My faith is tested every single day. But I am compelled by hope. And it is that hope that drives me
I eat pork.
Are you suggesting that Judaism has some inherent flaw because they too do not eat the flesh of animals that happily consume rubbish and pretty much anything else they put before them?
I do not pray 2000 times a day.
Neither do I in a setting, but just about that much in fleeting seconds�See�I�ve just said a prayer for you. But structure-wise, Just like with Islam, there IS a set schedule of prayer. It�s available on-line if you�d like me to guide you to it!
I love the West and its associated freedoms
Freedoms are often subjective thoughts and certainly paradoxical. America, for example, it�s the �Land of the Free.� However, this free country has more laws, per capita, than any country in the world! It rather takes the sails out of the word �Free.� And just try and tell the US Government that you�ve decided to visit Cuba. They�ll tell you that they forbid you to do so!
I am not a terrorist.
Terrorism takes on many faces. I�m sure you are not. But espousing inflammatory dogma can lead you and others in that direction.
I do not have a silly beard with no moustache
I have a friend who�s a Hasidic Jew. I�m going to have to tell Chaim that I�ve just learned that his beard and moustache are considered silly by �Britains in the know�
I do not scroung off the government
Perhaps scrounge? Are you referring to Muslims or the eleven million people who simply can�t be bothered to leave their Jeremy Kyle shows and go out and work?
I have never been involved in terrorism
You are right now!
Thank you for NOT saying this evil and wicked faith is like US!!!!!
Faith is not evil. However, faith in the wrong things can seriously infect a balanced society. My faith is tested every single day. But I am compelled by hope. And it is that hope that drives me
I think I'd take you up on whether or not faith is evil V V but that's for another day and not in the News section
Just a tip though you're better off ignoring shadow man's jeuvenile attempts to be contraversial - he's only trying to wind up anybody green enough to pay attention, and now you're no longer green ( congrats ) well - I wouldn't waste pixels on such posts if I were you
Just a tip though you're better off ignoring shadow man's jeuvenile attempts to be contraversial - he's only trying to wind up anybody green enough to pay attention, and now you're no longer green ( congrats ) well - I wouldn't waste pixels on such posts if I were you
jake peg leg, could it be you are so intellegent enough to debate and your answer, like so many foul marxist, is ignore, ignore, ignore. Very grown up if you don't mind me saying.
Britain ignore the holocaust for many years and apatheid for about 20 years. Great philosphy you adhere to. I am confident your political party would love such a spokesmen.
Father Bill, I think you for your detailed analyis. I will disagrree with most of your arguments, but the fact you come accross as a dignified and very knowledgable gentleman, I truly respect you for that.
Happily, I am probably one of the few non-muslims on here who has genuinely read the koran. Further, in all, I have spent about a year of my short life in a muslim country. so my argument is not based on a desire to be controversial or ethnosentric, it is based on my own subjective observations and intellectual opinion.
When the idiots on here have actually read the koran, seen towns and cities with whole populations (not some Daily Mail library photo) who want to kill the west and burn Englishmen, then I may take their arguments on board. But we all know such people are cowards and are content to learn their "facts" from whatever hideous marxist propoganda they read from.
Yes, just ignore me. I know nothing.
Pathetic.
Britain ignore the holocaust for many years and apatheid for about 20 years. Great philosphy you adhere to. I am confident your political party would love such a spokesmen.
Father Bill, I think you for your detailed analyis. I will disagrree with most of your arguments, but the fact you come accross as a dignified and very knowledgable gentleman, I truly respect you for that.
Happily, I am probably one of the few non-muslims on here who has genuinely read the koran. Further, in all, I have spent about a year of my short life in a muslim country. so my argument is not based on a desire to be controversial or ethnosentric, it is based on my own subjective observations and intellectual opinion.
When the idiots on here have actually read the koran, seen towns and cities with whole populations (not some Daily Mail library photo) who want to kill the west and burn Englishmen, then I may take their arguments on board. But we all know such people are cowards and are content to learn their "facts" from whatever hideous marxist propoganda they read from.
Yes, just ignore me. I know nothing.
Pathetic.
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http: //news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/160000/images/_164559 _Copy_of_ira_terrorists_300.jpg&imgrefurl=http ://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/164559.stm& h=180&w=300&sz=31&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=1ZN N0gwDf0joCM:&tbnh=70&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq %3DIrish%2Bterrorists%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26 hl%3Den%26cr%3DcountryUK%257CcountryGB%26sa%3D N
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/matt_kane/images/ AMERICA2.jpg
There you go MrBenn ^^^.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/matt_kane/images/ AMERICA2.jpg
There you go MrBenn ^^^.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I was talking about terrorists. In what way do the fundamentalist Christians I mentioned not qualify?
Or does 'terrorism' only relate to attacks on public transport, in your mind?
In that case, how about Aum Shinrikyo, the religious group responsible for the deadly nerve gas attack on the Tokyo subway a few years ago?
Or Eta, the Basque seperatists, who killed two people at Madrid airport in December and were behind the Madrid train bombings that killed nearly 200.
For a bit of Hindu terrorism, there's the sectarian group Anand Marg who operate in India and are brutal.
Let me know if you need any more examples.
I was talking about terrorists. In what way do the fundamentalist Christians I mentioned not qualify?
Or does 'terrorism' only relate to attacks on public transport, in your mind?
In that case, how about Aum Shinrikyo, the religious group responsible for the deadly nerve gas attack on the Tokyo subway a few years ago?
Or Eta, the Basque seperatists, who killed two people at Madrid airport in December and were behind the Madrid train bombings that killed nearly 200.
For a bit of Hindu terrorism, there's the sectarian group Anand Marg who operate in India and are brutal.
Let me know if you need any more examples.
Reagarding terrorists:
Forgive me for looking after my own countries interests and a degree of self preservation, but it is fair to say ALL terrorist worth worrying about are indeed muslim in England.
I can live with a few "Fathers for Justice" throwing purple powder in Parliament or scaling Buckinginham Palace. I can live with a few animal extremisits setting off some small incendary devices in fur shops (small issue with digging up somebody Grandmother, if you remember) but hey ho.
Luckily PIRA and its associated hate mongers have thankfully gone very quiet.
Christian fundamentalism has never really reared its ugly head in England and it is fair to say they are just mad anyway, unlike Al Qadea.
Yep, ALL terrorists here are muslim and the only ones worth mentioning.
However, although a countryman nowadays, if anybody wants to kill Fox Hunters and the Countryside Alliance, I would see this as a just cause.
Ones mans terrorists is another mans freedon fighter. However, I fail to see bombing up London Underground as an act of freedom. Call me ignorant, but where is the freedom in killing and maming innocent commuters going about their daily business from ALL faiths and social positions.
Muslims, ahhhhhhhh bless 'em
Forgive me for looking after my own countries interests and a degree of self preservation, but it is fair to say ALL terrorist worth worrying about are indeed muslim in England.
I can live with a few "Fathers for Justice" throwing purple powder in Parliament or scaling Buckinginham Palace. I can live with a few animal extremisits setting off some small incendary devices in fur shops (small issue with digging up somebody Grandmother, if you remember) but hey ho.
Luckily PIRA and its associated hate mongers have thankfully gone very quiet.
Christian fundamentalism has never really reared its ugly head in England and it is fair to say they are just mad anyway, unlike Al Qadea.
Yep, ALL terrorists here are muslim and the only ones worth mentioning.
However, although a countryman nowadays, if anybody wants to kill Fox Hunters and the Countryside Alliance, I would see this as a just cause.
Ones mans terrorists is another mans freedon fighter. However, I fail to see bombing up London Underground as an act of freedom. Call me ignorant, but where is the freedom in killing and maming innocent commuters going about their daily business from ALL faiths and social positions.
Muslims, ahhhhhhhh bless 'em
If you're going to redefine your terms just to cling to your argument, MrBen, why not just say:
Show me a terrorist who hates the west and has dark skin and wears a ruck sack full of explosives on the London underground while reciting the Koran... who isn't a Muslim.
Then your argument works brilliantly.
Show me a terrorist who hates the west and has dark skin and wears a ruck sack full of explosives on the London underground while reciting the Koran... who isn't a Muslim.
Then your argument works brilliantly.
You have me wrong sweep2k.
I am in no way trying to argue. I am just discussing.
Like the Shadow above says. No other terrorist organisation kills innocents in the name of freedom.
How come whenever anything happens there is always an excuse for why they did it, but no condemnation from these so called muslim clerics?
You might call these people insurgents, i call them terrorists. There is no explanation whatsoever that could convince me that killing innocent people in the name of freedom is justified.
Like the question says, where are these silent muslims who have no issues with the west?
Please explain why you think its right to kill innocent people if your religion says its wrong to do so...
I am in no way trying to argue. I am just discussing.
Like the Shadow above says. No other terrorist organisation kills innocents in the name of freedom.
How come whenever anything happens there is always an excuse for why they did it, but no condemnation from these so called muslim clerics?
You might call these people insurgents, i call them terrorists. There is no explanation whatsoever that could convince me that killing innocent people in the name of freedom is justified.
Like the question says, where are these silent muslims who have no issues with the west?
Please explain why you think its right to kill innocent people if your religion says its wrong to do so...
Hang about, you've got things twisted up a bit there, Mr Ben.
No-one here is calling them insurgents - we're all calling them terrorists. No-one is saying that killing innocent civilians is justified - we're all condemning it.
Slightly bewildered as to where you've got those conclusions from? But anyway... You said that all terroritst were Muslims and I think it's been explained to you that that's patently not the case. Hasn't it?
No-one here is calling them insurgents - we're all calling them terrorists. No-one is saying that killing innocent civilians is justified - we're all condemning it.
Slightly bewildered as to where you've got those conclusions from? But anyway... You said that all terroritst were Muslims and I think it's been explained to you that that's patently not the case. Hasn't it?
Oh dear, here we go,!
But I think we got a long way before it turned into yet another anti - muslim rant.
a message for the VillageVicar:-
Your parishioners are very fortunate to have you!
just reading your posts reinforcing my belief that good will always overcome evil.
I hope i am never asked to choose between you and the Vicar of Dibley. (thats a compliment)
But I think we got a long way before it turned into yet another anti - muslim rant.
a message for the VillageVicar:-
Your parishioners are very fortunate to have you!
just reading your posts reinforcing my belief that good will always overcome evil.
I hope i am never asked to choose between you and the Vicar of Dibley. (thats a compliment)
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