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Fair enough 4GS. I will try to find "Jesus, Man or Myth?" (by Carsten Peter Thiede, is it?) so as to read it for myself. If this is the source of your claims that Mary was 14 on marriage and that Joseph was a widower (two things about which we cannot possibly know anything at all) then it should be fun to read.
So far I have drawn a blank. Neither Amazon nor Abe Books have it. I might even be reduced to buying it from the publisher!
So far I have drawn a blank. Neither Amazon nor Abe Books have it. I might even be reduced to buying it from the publisher!
Ah. I understand now.
And to my suprise find myself agreeing with you rather more than I suspected I would. Which is nice.
My mother is religious and I've seen the divides you speak of over and over again within the catholic church she attended. In fact a lot of it was based on cultures and countries too.
Do you think there's some scope to say then that the church/mosque/religion (take your pick) is based on a sort of class system and as such causes more division than it does harmony? Is there really a need for a church in which to worship? Yes there is some sense of community but can that not be got by other means?
Bringing it down to base levels, in the film Stigmata, there's a quote that says somothing along the lines of 'split a piece of wood and I am there, lift a stone... ' Would it not be better if we just tried to live with a sense of respect for our fellow man rather than being part of a church which if you don't agree with you can not be a part of? If Jesus/God/Allah/Budda is everywhere then do we really need organsied religion and the routine of prayer? Isn't the way we live our lives testament enough to our respective faiths and beliefs?
Personally I was baptised a catholic. I have never made my confirmation as I have issues with organised religion (can you tell?!) and also because I don't believe in the bible or the concept of God as it has been taught to me. Suprisingly, I do belief that a bloke called Jesus may well have existed but not that he was the son of God.
Naturally my mother despairs.
And to my suprise find myself agreeing with you rather more than I suspected I would. Which is nice.
My mother is religious and I've seen the divides you speak of over and over again within the catholic church she attended. In fact a lot of it was based on cultures and countries too.
Do you think there's some scope to say then that the church/mosque/religion (take your pick) is based on a sort of class system and as such causes more division than it does harmony? Is there really a need for a church in which to worship? Yes there is some sense of community but can that not be got by other means?
Bringing it down to base levels, in the film Stigmata, there's a quote that says somothing along the lines of 'split a piece of wood and I am there, lift a stone... ' Would it not be better if we just tried to live with a sense of respect for our fellow man rather than being part of a church which if you don't agree with you can not be a part of? If Jesus/God/Allah/Budda is everywhere then do we really need organsied religion and the routine of prayer? Isn't the way we live our lives testament enough to our respective faiths and beliefs?
Personally I was baptised a catholic. I have never made my confirmation as I have issues with organised religion (can you tell?!) and also because I don't believe in the bible or the concept of God as it has been taught to me. Suprisingly, I do belief that a bloke called Jesus may well have existed but not that he was the son of God.
Naturally my mother despairs.
China, you have created a plethora of discussion points. Unfortunately, I need to go out now for a bit. I�ve had a couple of visits cancel today, which gave me the opportunity to write. But now duty calls.
For now: What our societal world needs can be summed into two things (simple things they are not): We need foundations and we need definitions. Interestingly, both of these need to manifest themselves at the earliest point in a child�s life.
If the child cannot understand the definitions of right and wrong, as well as what is acceptable within its society, then that child has a greater chance of developing into an individual who is stuck in the self-serving aspects of human nature: �What�s in it for me and Make me feel good abut myself.� Both of those are valid human emotions, however they can easily get out of kilt.
The foundation actually helps support definitions. Foundation can and should start in the home base. But it also requires a societal base. Judaism, Buddhism, Islam and Christianity all can provide that important societal base, where our values are formed.
Continued:
For now: What our societal world needs can be summed into two things (simple things they are not): We need foundations and we need definitions. Interestingly, both of these need to manifest themselves at the earliest point in a child�s life.
If the child cannot understand the definitions of right and wrong, as well as what is acceptable within its society, then that child has a greater chance of developing into an individual who is stuck in the self-serving aspects of human nature: �What�s in it for me and Make me feel good abut myself.� Both of those are valid human emotions, however they can easily get out of kilt.
The foundation actually helps support definitions. Foundation can and should start in the home base. But it also requires a societal base. Judaism, Buddhism, Islam and Christianity all can provide that important societal base, where our values are formed.
Continued:
Part 2
Comes to mind the time I had a conversation with my children�s headteacher who was in despair over children cursing in class. She pointed out, thankfully, that my children never did, nor did she imagine that she ever would, but she was comforted by the thought that had they, should could instantly chastise them by saying �your parents don�t speak like that and they would be disappointed if they heard you.� However, sadly, as she pointed out, it is most probably the norm in the other children�s homes. So the school begins to lose its credibility when they help to guide a child in those societal foundations and the parental home conflicts with those values. Just think of bullying: often, the behaviour traits are manifested by parents first and the child simply copies those behaviours at school. It�s a sad commentary on the state of our home values.
I would like to touch on some of the other interesting things you�ve shared. Sadly, I really must go now. But I�ll write later.
I wish you well
Fr Bill
4GS: I�ve noticed the book you�ve discussed. Along those lines�somewhat�have you ever read the book �Joshua� written by Fr. Joseph Girzone? Everyone I�ve shared it with has told me they couldn�t put it down. It forces us to think!
Be well
Comes to mind the time I had a conversation with my children�s headteacher who was in despair over children cursing in class. She pointed out, thankfully, that my children never did, nor did she imagine that she ever would, but she was comforted by the thought that had they, should could instantly chastise them by saying �your parents don�t speak like that and they would be disappointed if they heard you.� However, sadly, as she pointed out, it is most probably the norm in the other children�s homes. So the school begins to lose its credibility when they help to guide a child in those societal foundations and the parental home conflicts with those values. Just think of bullying: often, the behaviour traits are manifested by parents first and the child simply copies those behaviours at school. It�s a sad commentary on the state of our home values.
I would like to touch on some of the other interesting things you�ve shared. Sadly, I really must go now. But I�ll write later.
I wish you well
Fr Bill
4GS: I�ve noticed the book you�ve discussed. Along those lines�somewhat�have you ever read the book �Joshua� written by Fr. Joseph Girzone? Everyone I�ve shared it with has told me they couldn�t put it down. It forces us to think!
Be well
chakka35, What kind of nuns have you and wizard been hangin' with???
Perhaps you should say "Hi!" to The Flying Nun
Perhaps you should say "Hi!" to The Flying Nun
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