Can you believe this is happening in England?

[mariner2]

Emmanuel College gets a government grant while it's "science" department teaches CREATIONISM. (ie dismisses all the evidence of biology, geology, geography and paleontology in favour of the bible's version of events)
Not so amazing if this was in Hicksville, Alabama, but unbelievably it is here in Gateshead, England

http://education.guardian.co.uk/schools/story/ 0,,664515,00.html

[wizard69]

Mad (and sad)

[Theland]

Before you write them off as cranks and weirdos, how about an objective examination of the end result?
What kind of citizens emerge from this college?
I bet they are streets ahead of the the comprehensives, and produce well balanced, well qualified students ready to move on to higher education and successful careers.
I often read Mibs' posts in awe. His descriptions of the quest of the human mind for knowledge and enlightenment are often poetic in their form and ethereal in their noble descriptions of the ascent of the human mind. But, what in the real world is the end result of the logical, rational, humanistic secular pursuit of knowledge that forbids the ingress of the spiritual?
I see permissiveness, moral degradation, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, family disintegaration, and a general lawlessness that confines people, rather than liberating them.
The phrase, "proof of the pudding," comes to mind.

[wizard69]

you got any proof for what you have just written Theland...or is it "christians are better than you lot?"

[Theland]

Hiya Wiz - Yes, an awful lot of societies troublemakers and outcasts and underclass appear, in my humble opinion, to either completely devoid of any spiritual dimension in their lives, or simply barking up the wrong tree.

[Theland]

BTW, it is not a question of "Christians better than you lot," quite the reverse, as Christians are more often than not victims of ridicule, or outright insults.

[wizard69]

Theland...why am I beginning to find your posts ridiculous?

[wizard69]

And where is thre proof that students that are taught creationism are better citizens than the rest of us?

[Theland]

If they are taught creationism, then they have God as their ulimate authority. They learn that they answerable to Him for their actions.
Without God, people can do what seems right in their own eyes, putting themselves at the centre of their universe, and look around you, what an imperfect world we have as a result.

[wizard69]

Theland.. the spanish inqusition believed in creationism, the crusaders believed in creationism, The witch burners believed in creationism, suicide bombers believe in creationism, people who fly aeroplanes into big buildings believe in creationism.
On the other hand I do none of these things and I am an atheist.
Mmmm....you have to wonder dont you?

[Theland]

Oh heck!
I did not mean to imply that the kids from the local comprehensive are bent on taking flying lessons with a view to self destruct as part of their P.S.H.E. curriculum.
Yes, the people you quoted were all creationists, but not Christians.
They did not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, did they?

[jojojojoanne]

it could simply be an 'experiment' within educational diversity?

[Llamatron]

Theland is right, Christians are all jolly nice people.
Just look at the Christians in the Whitehouse and all the good things they're doing for rich Americans and all the democracy they're bringing to Iraq and want to bring to Iran.

Yep, lovely, selfless people.

[brionon]

And good old 'In yer Face' xtians Bush and Blair killing all those Iraqis and their good mate Jesus lover Cliff {Just bought another Vinyard,-} Richard. Starving Kids or luxury living ? Mmmmm ?

[Gromit]

Er, the Guardian link is from 2002, are you slow readers here at Society and Culture?

"The headteacher argues that evolution and creationism are both "faith positions".

Which sounds sensible. Both positions should be presented to the pupils and they can then decide which they believe.

I must take exception to Theland's post at 9:09. The better individual is one who works out their own moral code and behaviour. One who has learned giving and generosity, one who knows from personal experience how to interact with their fellow man.

Someone who has not worked it out for themselves but follows a 2000 year old book for guidance is the poorer citizen .

[China Doll]

Teaching it as something people believe in an RE lesson is fine. Creationism has no place in Science.

[wizard69]

Theland...the inquisition, the witch burners,, the crusaders WERE most certainly christians.
Your argument does not hold water. You suggest that students that are taught creationism are better citizens than those that are taught evolution and yet after giving you examples of creation taught people you immidiatly change tack by suggesting that they werent christians.
Something not right with your argument...
(namely, that you havnt got one).

[Theland]

O.K. then, put it this way.
Read the gospels and see what Jesus was all about.
Now, compare the Crusaders and Inquisitors etc, (yes, Bush and Blair as well), and then decide for yourself, ask the question, are these people measuring up to the standard of Jesus Christ?
They can call themselves Christians, but, are they? I think not.

[Theland]

I should also add, that a Christian will be the first person to admit that they do not come up to the standard set by Jesus.
This shortfall is called sin, something we are acutely aware of, and for which we beg the Lords' forgiveness.
Saint Paul argus the point well, of how weak human flesh sins no matter how hard we try to live a holy life, but Christ is willing to forgive thre repentent sinner.