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Why do Christians disapprove of them so much ?
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Christians disapprove of them because they think the Bible says that you'd shouldn't have anything to do with making contact with the dead. Mind you, the Bible also has a story of precisely that occurring in 1 Samuel 28, so I wouldn't put too much store in the Bible.
Octavious is right though, it's not just Christians who object. I'm an atheist, and I think they're either self-deluded idiots or actively preying on the insecurities of the bereaved.
Octavious is right though, it's not just Christians who object. I'm an atheist, and I think they're either self-deluded idiots or actively preying on the insecurities of the bereaved.
I am a Christian, and I do not approve of them because it is forbidden by God.
I do not disapprove of them in a, "Tut, tut, I'm shocked," kind of way, but this practise is like stealing, murder, dishonesty, unrighteous anger, and adultery etc. It is sin. A falling short of Gods' perfection and holiness.
I am also a sinner, we all are, but I do try to not consciously go out of my way to commit sin, and contacting a shaman is precisely that.
I do not disapprove of them in a, "Tut, tut, I'm shocked," kind of way, but this practise is like stealing, murder, dishonesty, unrighteous anger, and adultery etc. It is sin. A falling short of Gods' perfection and holiness.
I am also a sinner, we all are, but I do try to not consciously go out of my way to commit sin, and contacting a shaman is precisely that.
Octavius, my analogy is perfectly sound. To believe in Cinderella is to believe in a story of magic which has no historical basis. So to accept Cinderella but reject Snow White is to make a nonsensical distinction.
The Jesus story is also one of magic which has no historical basis. So to believe any one or two of the three and reject the other(s) makes no consistent sense.
The Jesus story is also one of magic which has no historical basis. So to believe any one or two of the three and reject the other(s) makes no consistent sense.
It may not make sense ...... to you.
But it makes sense ........ to me.
If God reveals Himself through His word to those who humble themselves before Him, and search for Him with all of their hearts, then unless you have personally been in that position and done that, how can you dismiss it all so confidently?
But it makes sense ........ to me.
If God reveals Himself through His word to those who humble themselves before Him, and search for Him with all of their hearts, then unless you have personally been in that position and done that, how can you dismiss it all so confidently?
I tried this the other day, Theland, and nothing whatsoever has happened.
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Cul ture/Religion-and-Spirituality/Question466476- 3.html
No signs, no feeling different, no relevations, therefore I have to suspect God isn't there to reveal himself.
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Cul ture/Religion-and-Spirituality/Question466476- 3.html
No signs, no feeling different, no relevations, therefore I have to suspect God isn't there to reveal himself.
I can dismiss God confidently, Theland, for the same reason that I can dismiss Santa Claus confidently. Santa is a supernatural being who does magical things and for whose existence there is not a smidgeon of evidence.
God is a supernatural being who does magical things and for whose existence there is not a smidgeon of evidence.
If the slightest bit of evidence were to appear then rational people could sit up and start taking notice. But the world still waits...
And, alas, your feeling that you know your God and can communicate with him, though I hope it keeps you happy, is no more evidence than the confident feelings felt by astrologers, crystal-gazers, spritualists and the like. They all think they know.
God is a supernatural being who does magical things and for whose existence there is not a smidgeon of evidence.
If the slightest bit of evidence were to appear then rational people could sit up and start taking notice. But the world still waits...
And, alas, your feeling that you know your God and can communicate with him, though I hope it keeps you happy, is no more evidence than the confident feelings felt by astrologers, crystal-gazers, spritualists and the like. They all think they know.
Supernatural entities generally include those entities which cannot be explained, so your analogy is at least correct in that sense. Of course everyone who does anything thinks they are right � that is human nature � I am surprised you have never noticed this before. I support Arsenal because they are the best team. Fact. Would you agree with my factual statement? Evidence = top of the league, doing very well in Champions League, best manager, best stadium�..
Just because I don�t have any faith in the power and ability of mediums and spiritualists, doesn�t mean that I discount it as an impossibility. I am yet to be convinced. Why does that ail you so much chakka, is it just my religion that befuddles your every day existence?
Just because I don�t have any faith in the power and ability of mediums and spiritualists, doesn�t mean that I discount it as an impossibility. I am yet to be convinced. Why does that ail you so much chakka, is it just my religion that befuddles your every day existence?
I think most Christians are very spiritual people, they believe in the holy spirit, and they believe that when a person dies their spirit goes to Heaven (or hell).
So, they belive that everyone has a spirit, or soul, and know not all people are good. I think maybe that they would be worried about messing around with that kind of thing, because they know there's a chance the medium would channel the spirit of someone very evil and that could open up a can of very unpleasant worms.
Also, many Religions see death as "an eternal rest" - when someone passes over to the "other side" they should be left in peace.
When my mum died, her good friend, who is also the local Vicar, begged me not to even think about going to see a meduim to try and speak to my mum, because "its not safe" I wasn't planning to anyway, but she told me she distrusts Mediums and people who attend Spiritualist Churches because; "they don't believe in Jesus Christ, and they dabble in things that should be left alone."
I also agree with Waldo, many of them are cynical and money grabbing and they prey on very vulnerable people.
So, they belive that everyone has a spirit, or soul, and know not all people are good. I think maybe that they would be worried about messing around with that kind of thing, because they know there's a chance the medium would channel the spirit of someone very evil and that could open up a can of very unpleasant worms.
Also, many Religions see death as "an eternal rest" - when someone passes over to the "other side" they should be left in peace.
When my mum died, her good friend, who is also the local Vicar, begged me not to even think about going to see a meduim to try and speak to my mum, because "its not safe" I wasn't planning to anyway, but she told me she distrusts Mediums and people who attend Spiritualist Churches because; "they don't believe in Jesus Christ, and they dabble in things that should be left alone."
I also agree with Waldo, many of them are cynical and money grabbing and they prey on very vulnerable people.
Octavius I'll answer you in two parts: one now and the other tomorrow when I've got more time.
Regarding Arsenal, as life-long Liverpool supporter ( I was born and bred there), if there is such a thing as "fact" in that context, then I have to agree with you whole-heartedly. At the moment Arsenal are superb; they are playing magnificent, smart, sharp, entertaining football, and, because their team is so young, they are likely to be tops for a long time to come. Meanwhile my team are playing as if they were Accrington Stanley Reserves.
How this differs from the main point of this thread I'll talk about tomorrow. Meanwhile I hope that you're not on form tomorrow at Anfield... Cheers.
Regarding Arsenal, as life-long Liverpool supporter ( I was born and bred there), if there is such a thing as "fact" in that context, then I have to agree with you whole-heartedly. At the moment Arsenal are superb; they are playing magnificent, smart, sharp, entertaining football, and, because their team is so young, they are likely to be tops for a long time to come. Meanwhile my team are playing as if they were Accrington Stanley Reserves.
How this differs from the main point of this thread I'll talk about tomorrow. Meanwhile I hope that you're not on form tomorrow at Anfield... Cheers.
Now,Octavius to tackle the main subject.
First, I'll put aside the idea that I am in any way "ailed" and that something as unintelligent as religion could possible "befuddle my everyday existence" an existence which, I can assure, you is the very opposite.
You seem to keep an open mind about spiritualism, a supernatural idea which has nothing whatsoever to support it in the way of evidence. So what do you use as criteria when deciding, in your life, what is to believed and what not? Do you believe anything and everything absurd until it is disproved? If so, then you must give house-room to, for example....
alchemy, alien abductions, angels, astrology ....clairvoyance, crystal-gazing...evil spirits.. fortune-telling...ghosts, goblins...holocaust denial...levitation..lucky numbers... and so on through Santa Claus, spoon-bending, Tooth Fairy and weeping statues.
And you can imagine how many daft things I have omitted from that alphabetical list.
So what are your standards?
As someone once said: an open mind is fine until it becomes so open that your brain drops out.
First, I'll put aside the idea that I am in any way "ailed" and that something as unintelligent as religion could possible "befuddle my everyday existence" an existence which, I can assure, you is the very opposite.
You seem to keep an open mind about spiritualism, a supernatural idea which has nothing whatsoever to support it in the way of evidence. So what do you use as criteria when deciding, in your life, what is to believed and what not? Do you believe anything and everything absurd until it is disproved? If so, then you must give house-room to, for example....
alchemy, alien abductions, angels, astrology ....clairvoyance, crystal-gazing...evil spirits.. fortune-telling...ghosts, goblins...holocaust denial...levitation..lucky numbers... and so on through Santa Claus, spoon-bending, Tooth Fairy and weeping statues.
And you can imagine how many daft things I have omitted from that alphabetical list.
So what are your standards?
As someone once said: an open mind is fine until it becomes so open that your brain drops out.
-- answer removed --
I have no standards!
I can give credence to any of those you have mentioned, providing I am able to assess the information and evidence to hand and express a personal opinion one way or the other. Of course I have an open mind, the purpose of learning is to replace an empty mind with an open one. My religion doesn�t hold me back.
I can give credence to any of those you have mentioned, providing I am able to assess the information and evidence to hand and express a personal opinion one way or the other. Of course I have an open mind, the purpose of learning is to replace an empty mind with an open one. My religion doesn�t hold me back.
The search for truth, Octavius is not to replace an empty mind with an open one; it is to clear out the clutter of absurdities from an undiscriminating and undiscerning mind which has been open too uncritically. That you have no standards explains it.
Try cultivating some. Seek evidence and weigh it up. Reject those things which have no substance and pursue those which have. You'll find it much more rewarding and stimulating than just accepting everything you are told.
It can be disillusioning, of course, in areas where you have previously just accepted stuff without question. But it's worth it.
Try cultivating some. Seek evidence and weigh it up. Reject those things which have no substance and pursue those which have. You'll find it much more rewarding and stimulating than just accepting everything you are told.
It can be disillusioning, of course, in areas where you have previously just accepted stuff without question. But it's worth it.
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