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support for troops in iraq
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Why should it be expected that all UK residents should support our "war effort" in Iraq? I was in discussion with a neighbour a couple of days, when he was voicing his support for the Remembrance Sunday proceedings. I remarked, "They should bring the troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan". He concurred with this but added, "They have no choice". Is that correct? I was of the opinion that conscription had ended in this country and therefore if one does not agree with the "war", just pack it in or become a conscientious objector. Certainly, even for the religious ones among us, nobody can believe that the poor devils who died are aware of the "ceremony" at the cenotaph. Watching the Royals and the political leaders in the forefront, displaying their "well earned gongs", is a bit of a joke. There will be those among you who will remember Tony Martin, the gentleman who lived in a secluded house in Norfolk, who, in 2001 shot at a couple of intruders, killing one of them. He was convicted of murder, which caused a bit of an uproar with the general public in the UK and some other parts of the world. He served 18 months in prison when his conviction was reduced to "Manslaughter". Most in the country said, "They broke in and they deserved what they got!!". What I want to know is, "What is the vast difference between that case and our unlawful entry into Iraq?" Poor old Saddam Hussein. If he had still been in power, there would be no trouble with the Kurds in the north or the Shi'ites in Iran.!!!
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I personally think Tony Martin was wrong. For starters he shot a child in the back and he has shown zero remorse. If I killed a burglar I would be saddened, remorseful and shocked by it, let alone if I found out it was a kid. However, I feel, of course our troops should feel they are being supported. Why they are out there is here nor there but wishing them safety does no one any ills.
Been there have you? Worked near the Gaza strip and witnesses Hezbollah lunatics throwing human crap over the guards 24/7.
When have Israel ever started a war?
When has Israel publically beheaded people?
When has Israel ever stined a man todeath for being gay?
How often do you fear the average Jew on the underground with a rucksack?
My god, you are deluded.
When have Israel ever started a war?
When has Israel publically beheaded people?
When has Israel ever stined a man todeath for being gay?
How often do you fear the average Jew on the underground with a rucksack?
My god, you are deluded.
steg, there weren't any terrorists in Iraq in Saddam's time; he ran a basically secular regime (though it favoured people of his own sect) and the last thing he wanted was fundamentalists running around.
There are now, though.
As for it being about oil - well, even the head of the Federal Reserve - the US equivalent of the Bank of England - has admitted this (of course he has nothing to lose by doing so as the decision to go to war wasn't his). I think he's right, though I have no doubt other factors were involved, including Saddam making a monkey of Bush senior. But the war hasn't exactly brought petrol prices down much, as it turns out.
There are now, though.
As for it being about oil - well, even the head of the Federal Reserve - the US equivalent of the Bank of England - has admitted this (of course he has nothing to lose by doing so as the decision to go to war wasn't his). I think he's right, though I have no doubt other factors were involved, including Saddam making a monkey of Bush senior. But the war hasn't exactly brought petrol prices down much, as it turns out.
forgive me for not valuing my stuff more than the life of a child. If he shot him and was sorry for it and didnt have the nation proud of him, maybe I would accept the self defense business. Its not just old people getting robbed and beaten up by youngsters. This kid had no hope, he was brought up wrong . I made mistakes well into my late teens, admittedly burglary wasnt one of them but if I do know a guy who killed an old ladies dog in a prank gone wrong when he was 15 and at 30 he is a total turn around. That boy had no chance to make his life better, a little less cheering about his death would be nice.
I'm no hero, Shank. Yes I would let them rob me. Kill? Only if my childrens or my life were at stake. Still dont reckon I would shoot someone in the back. A warning shot in the dark is probably enough to mae most burglars get out of your house very quickly.
I'm no hero, Shank. Yes I would let them rob me. Kill? Only if my childrens or my life were at stake. Still dont reckon I would shoot someone in the back. A warning shot in the dark is probably enough to mae most burglars get out of your house very quickly.
I disagree Goodsy.
all this talk of the boy (who was a burgling pikey with a string of convictions as was he putrid family) did not deserve to live.
Tony martin was no egghead contestant either and all he was doing was defending what was rightfully his.
I can tell you know without hesistation, if i caught a burglar in my house, I would break his neck with my bare hands. Fair enough I would have the gumption to avoid a court case, but nonetheless burgling scum deserve all they get.
As for your friend who killed a dog, i would like to know how the "prank" went wrong. If the prank was aimed at the dog, then i hope his dies a horrible death even now. If the prank was unrelated and the dog got in the way, well that's life. but he should still donate a hell of a lot of money to a dog charity now.
all this talk of the boy (who was a burgling pikey with a string of convictions as was he putrid family) did not deserve to live.
Tony martin was no egghead contestant either and all he was doing was defending what was rightfully his.
I can tell you know without hesistation, if i caught a burglar in my house, I would break his neck with my bare hands. Fair enough I would have the gumption to avoid a court case, but nonetheless burgling scum deserve all they get.
As for your friend who killed a dog, i would like to know how the "prank" went wrong. If the prank was aimed at the dog, then i hope his dies a horrible death even now. If the prank was unrelated and the dog got in the way, well that's life. but he should still donate a hell of a lot of money to a dog charity now.
What is the definition for "starting a war"? Bombing and/or invading another country? Has Israel never undertaken such actions?
In 1981 Israeli Prime Minister and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Menachem Begin sent the Israeli Air Force into Iraq to bomb a nuclear reactor.
In 1982 Begin�s government authorised the Israel Defence Forces' invasion of Lebanon which led to conflict with the Syrian military.
60 years ago the Zionists striving for an Israeli State were indeed committing the types of atrocities listed in previous posts, and worse.
In 1944 the Irgun, one of a number of militant Zionist terrorist organisations, under the leadership of Menachem Begin (future Israeli Prime MInister etc. - see above), initiated 4 years and hundreds of armed attacks on British troops, including the bombings in 1946 of the British administrative headquarters at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, killing 91, and the British Embassy in Rome.
1947 saw the Irgun capture two 20 year-old British Field Security Police Sergeants, Mervyn Paice and Clifford Martin, hang them and booby-trap Martin's body with a mine which exploded when the body was cut down.
And there are many, many, many more examples to draw from.
In 1981 Israeli Prime Minister and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Menachem Begin sent the Israeli Air Force into Iraq to bomb a nuclear reactor.
In 1982 Begin�s government authorised the Israel Defence Forces' invasion of Lebanon which led to conflict with the Syrian military.
60 years ago the Zionists striving for an Israeli State were indeed committing the types of atrocities listed in previous posts, and worse.
In 1944 the Irgun, one of a number of militant Zionist terrorist organisations, under the leadership of Menachem Begin (future Israeli Prime MInister etc. - see above), initiated 4 years and hundreds of armed attacks on British troops, including the bombings in 1946 of the British administrative headquarters at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, killing 91, and the British Embassy in Rome.
1947 saw the Irgun capture two 20 year-old British Field Security Police Sergeants, Mervyn Paice and Clifford Martin, hang them and booby-trap Martin's body with a mine which exploded when the body was cut down.
And there are many, many, many more examples to draw from.
Cugetit, you have no idea what your talking about
1) Soldiers do not declare war, politicians do that, I'm an ex squaddie so I've got experience there
2) The Royal family apart from prince philip and andrew have NOT earned their gongs, they get them for beinhg related to the queen. I earned my gongs
3) I,ve been to Israel, while I was there, no Israeli strapped explosives onto themself and walkede onto a bus full of Palisinian kids and exploded them, however, palistinian terrorists walked onto Israeli buses and exploded them
1) Soldiers do not declare war, politicians do that, I'm an ex squaddie so I've got experience there
2) The Royal family apart from prince philip and andrew have NOT earned their gongs, they get them for beinhg related to the queen. I earned my gongs
3) I,ve been to Israel, while I was there, no Israeli strapped explosives onto themself and walkede onto a bus full of Palisinian kids and exploded them, however, palistinian terrorists walked onto Israeli buses and exploded them
jno..this is what Alan Greenspan was actually meaning when he said the war was about oil
AMY GOODMAN: Alan Greenspan, let's talk about the war in Iraq. You said what for many in your circles is the unspeakable, that the war in Iraq was for oil. Can you explain?
ALAN GREENSPAN: Yes. The point I was making was that if there were no oil under the sands of Iraq, Saddam Hussein would have never been able to accumulate the resources which enabled him to threaten his neighbors, Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia. And having watched him for thirty years, I was very fearful that he, if he ever achieved -- and I thought he might very well be able to buy one -- an atomic device, he would have essentially endeavored and perhaps succeeded in controlling the flow of oil through the Straits of Hormuz, which is the channel through which eighteen or nineteen million barrels a day of the world eighty-five million barrel crude oil production flows. Had he decided to shut down, say, seven million barrels a day, which he could have done if he controlled, he could have essentially also shut down a significant part of economic activity throughout the world.
The size of the threat that he posed, as I saw it emerging, I thought was scary. And so, getting him out of office or getting him out of the control position he was in, I thought, was essential. And whether that be done by one means or another was not as important, but it�s clear to me that were there not the oil resources in Iraq, the whole picture of how that part of the Middle East developed would have been different.
AMY GOODMAN: Alan Greenspan, let's talk about the war in Iraq. You said what for many in your circles is the unspeakable, that the war in Iraq was for oil. Can you explain?
ALAN GREENSPAN: Yes. The point I was making was that if there were no oil under the sands of Iraq, Saddam Hussein would have never been able to accumulate the resources which enabled him to threaten his neighbors, Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia. And having watched him for thirty years, I was very fearful that he, if he ever achieved -- and I thought he might very well be able to buy one -- an atomic device, he would have essentially endeavored and perhaps succeeded in controlling the flow of oil through the Straits of Hormuz, which is the channel through which eighteen or nineteen million barrels a day of the world eighty-five million barrel crude oil production flows. Had he decided to shut down, say, seven million barrels a day, which he could have done if he controlled, he could have essentially also shut down a significant part of economic activity throughout the world.
The size of the threat that he posed, as I saw it emerging, I thought was scary. And so, getting him out of office or getting him out of the control position he was in, I thought, was essential. And whether that be done by one means or another was not as important, but it�s clear to me that were there not the oil resources in Iraq, the whole picture of how that part of the Middle East developed would have been different.
Sorry, back again. Kempie I fully concur with what you say and could have gone back into history but 4GS wouldn't have understood. Of course, Palestinians will board Israeli buses and blow themselves up. They are at their wits end and have no other resources. It should also be remembered that to get Palestinian fatalaties, one can multiply Israeli figures ten times. The Israelis insist on reminding us about the "holocaust" but they are imitating the behaviour of the Nazis .... Palestinians in virtual ghettos, retaliation against whole families for the action of one member of that family ... and the Israelis have the advantage of the very latest technology, funded of course by the USA. Until the Palestinians are given a fair deal there will never be peace in the Middle East. I too have visited the areas spoken about .... many years in Saudi Arabia and visits to Syria, Jordan and Egypt. I also know that soldiers do not declare war but it is down to the politicians. However, if any person I knew was serving in the armed forces and declared him/herself a conscientious objector regarding what they saw as an unjust and illegal war in Iraq, I would back them to the hilt.
